I am in charge of setting up the sound system in a new night club at a college. It's a very open 1 floor bar. Basically a giant room with no barriers or obstacles. We have everything hung up and in place including 5 15in EV PA's and 5 18in EV subs.
My question relates to getting the most out of every speaker without ever having the chance to blow them. Also there are several speaker crossover options such as low and high pass filters for the subs and what looks like a
_/-\_. I am unsure if anything should be changed from just everything set to normal without applying any filters or should some be set to the high pass or low pass and others stay the same. Also the subs are on the ground while the highs are all hung up.
Also should I keep the highs on full range since the subs are on the ground and not next to them?
Any advice at all even not pertaining to my questions would be greatly appreciated. Maybe possible ratios between the lows and highs for the different speakers.
Thanks,
My question relates to getting the most out of every speaker without ever having the chance to blow them. Also there are several speaker crossover options such as low and high pass filters for the subs and what looks like a
_/-\_. I am unsure if anything should be changed from just everything set to normal without applying any filters or should some be set to the high pass or low pass and others stay the same. Also the subs are on the ground while the highs are all hung up.
Also should I keep the highs on full range since the subs are on the ground and not next to them?
Any advice at all even not pertaining to my questions would be greatly appreciated. Maybe possible ratios between the lows and highs for the different speakers.
Thanks,
I would make sure the amplifier is not more powerful than the speakers.
But you also need to make sure the amplifier wont be driven into clipping.
Make sure the mixer doesn't go above 0db.
I have been running a mobile disco since 1980 and obeyed the above rules and have never blown a speaker.
Its not mandatory but I also use a speaker protector to catch DC going to the speakers and disconnect them if DC is found.
But you also need to make sure the amplifier wont be driven into clipping.
Make sure the mixer doesn't go above 0db.
I have been running a mobile disco since 1980 and obeyed the above rules and have never blown a speaker.
Its not mandatory but I also use a speaker protector to catch DC going to the speakers and disconnect them if DC is found.
TX1181
18-inch subwoofer
and
TX1152
15-inch two-way full-range loudspeaker
There are 5 of each.
for the highs the are located in the room represented by ">" and the subs on the ground by "o":
|
| |||{DJ Booth}
|
|---------------------<|
|>--------------------| o
| ---------------------| o
|---------------------<| o
|>---------------------| o
|---------------------<| o
|-----------------------|
|------------------------|
|
Bar faces long ways down with the booth in the top right. The top right speaker is also facing diagonally towards the dance floor. This crude diagram is the dance floor while it goes about 3x farther down to the entrance. This bar can fit about 2000 people when completely full (the fire marshal might not like that though)
18-inch subwoofer
and
TX1152
15-inch two-way full-range loudspeaker
There are 5 of each.
for the highs the are located in the room represented by ">" and the subs on the ground by "o":
|
| |||{DJ Booth}
|
|---------------------<|
|>--------------------| o
| ---------------------| o
|---------------------<| o
|>---------------------| o
|---------------------<| o
|-----------------------|
|------------------------|
|
Bar faces long ways down with the booth in the top right. The top right speaker is also facing diagonally towards the dance floor. This crude diagram is the dance floor while it goes about 3x farther down to the entrance. This bar can fit about 2000 people when completely full (the fire marshal might not like that though)
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The full range speakers will play louder and more cleanly if some of their lows are filtered out.
Try removing their bottom octave and fill that in with the subs. The subs go up to 160 Hz,
so try cutting off the full range speakers somewhere around 100Hz to 150Hz.
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Just a thought. Why not invest in a consultation? Instead of asking what you hope are the right questions, and going back and forth on the internet, just pay someone who knows to come over and assess your system and set it up optimally. If there are no pro audio contractors in your area, I have to imagine there are sound men from working bands who would be willing to help for free or a reasonable fee. Even if they charge $200, I bet it would be worth it.
How would I go about filtering that out? With the low-pass filter that is on the back of the speakers? And should I apply that to all 5 or just a couple in strategic locations?
Im coming to this forum to get "free" advice at first. Resorting to paying a sound engineer is not in my budget at the moment
There is no high pass filter in the full range speakers, but there is a 6dB - 150Hz low pass filter in the subs.
If you add a simple line level 6dB high pass crossover at 150Hz on the full range speakers, that may help enough.
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No that won't be enough, these are all passive speakers so what is powering them?
Yes, add the high pass crossover just before the amp for the main speakers.
Use its input impedance to calculate the right capacitor to add in series with the amp input.
C (in Farads) = 1 / ( 2 * 3.14 * 100Hz * Rinput (in ohms) )
Of course an active line level crossover could also be used, but he's on a tight budget.
Really.. when was a budget mentioned or any suggestion that the OP was going to spend money at all.. since this isn't his system? He did mention something about crossover options in the original post so I'd like to know what they have in equipment besides the speakers.
a clearer roster of the gear line up for this rig is key to getting any recommendations about configuration and set up or tuning advice.
what is there for amps? how many?
any speaker management devices?(dbx driverack etc) x-overs digital or analog or passives in boxes? what mixer and outboard gear do you have?
do tell?
what is there for amps? how many?
any speaker management devices?(dbx driverack etc) x-overs digital or analog or passives in boxes? what mixer and outboard gear do you have?
do tell?
nigel ... your suggestion works only if the owner is in charge of the system ...In most of the clubs EDIT : in all globally existing clubs the chances that the owner knows how to run a sound system is one ...and that one is you ...
Devices that will disconnect a speaker during playing time shouldn't couldn't and wouldn't exist in any pro installation Nothing must interrupt play at no conditions ....
Existing DC protection inside proamp should be enough and work only if the amplifier is burned ...seriously Methods like limiters and or overload relays is out of the picture and systems should be designed to withstand both use and abuse while some of it is pretty hard often .
Advices to keep levels bellow 0db and run amplifiers before clipping will apply if you operate the system .....in a school that will never happen and chances of someone is abusing the system are pretty hi ...so electronics have to take that duty ... also you need to make sure that nobody will f*ck around with the tuning .
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Your solution is called DBX drive rack and its a management processor that can manage this and many more including safety measures and dynamic limiting or compress of the total signal as safety measure .
Inexpensive solution that will cost no more than 300 euro Point is that this magic drive rack will be as good as the person that will set it up ...
Persons that set it up is a good thing and a bad thing together simply cause they have an opinion also ... Chances that you have someone that knows both : setting up a drive rack and having a matching opinion with yours about the sound tone is very very low ... at least he can make it safe .
Try to get a DBX, read the manual and set it up on your own ,an we will meet soon in the broken amps forum ...
Try to get some software in your laptop that will help you tune and measure the venue in order to set the drive rack and we will meet in the broken speaker forum ..... also ...
Hopefully the guy who knows how to set up the DBX fro you will also comment on the installation mistakes that you made in the venue .
Excuse my tone but trust me it will save you many dollars .
Smoky regards
Sakis
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I should have added I design my own amplifiers and the DC protect module is inside the amp enclosure. In event of a DC fault the unit will always protect the expensive speakers. At a gig I tripped over a speaker cable and wrenched it out of the speaker cabinet shorting out the amp. This blew up the amp putting DC to the second speaker. Had it not been protected the second speaker would have fried.
Its unlikely a DJ will know not to go above 0db.
As you say a box of tricks which is lockable is the only sensible way forward with such an expensive piece of kit.
most all ported subs for PA's need a line level high pass for the same reasons as the tops > cone excursion protection below box tunings. An active crossover takes care of the tops! 4th order is standard practice. Most pro designs have the filter requirements printed on the drawing. so get all the manuals and start reading.
Many DJ's think all leds have to light up
I would make sure the amplifier is not more powerful than the speakers.
This is also wrong Nigel .... distortion will kill a speaker much faster than a bit of more unclipped power. Amplifier can be much higher power than the actual speaker is only thing you need to drive them properly , control them properly , and limit them properly ...
Power is a nice thing to have ... once it will be used it will make the cost back in most of clubs ...school is another issue but principal is the same
Kind regards \
Sakis
This is also wrong Nigel .... distortion will kill a speaker much faster than a bit of more unclipped power. Amplifier can be much higher power than the actual speaker is only thing you need to drive them properly , control them properly , and limit them properly ...
Power is a nice thing to have ... once it will be used it will make the cost back in most of clubs ...school is another issue but principal is the same
Kind regards \
Sakis
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