Hi,
I can buy two units of MH-212 Martin Audio (the famous midrange "Philishave" seen on number of lives during end 70's - earlier 90's).
Supertramp, Pink Floyd used this fabulous Martin Audio 4 ways systems based on folded horn B115, Philishave, 2440 JBL horn loaded and 2402 JBL for the HF.
Those two units of MH-212 are solded without speakers.
What were the loudspeakers used in the original design from Martin Audio, and what are nowadays the bests units to be used for such a design?
Thanks in advance
Massilia from Marseille, south of France
I can buy two units of MH-212 Martin Audio (the famous midrange "Philishave" seen on number of lives during end 70's - earlier 90's).
Supertramp, Pink Floyd used this fabulous Martin Audio 4 ways systems based on folded horn B115, Philishave, 2440 JBL horn loaded and 2402 JBL for the HF.
Those two units of MH-212 are solded without speakers.
What were the loudspeakers used in the original design from Martin Audio, and what are nowadays the bests units to be used for such a design?
Thanks in advance
Massilia from Marseille, south of France
What they sell is just "a box".
Nice, well made, but no sound of its own.
I bet original speakers were proprietary / custom made and nobody knows their specs (except Martin Audio, that is) but in general you should buy a couple "good" speakers from a reputed manufacturer and you won´t be far from the originals.
Search for some 12" speaker specified for midrange use (not woofer only and even ledd subwoofer) from: Beyma , RCF , Faital Pro , JBL, EV ... you cant go wrong.
Personally these days I prefer the European makers which keep investigating and on the front edge of technology rather than the US makers which mostly live on past memories.
Nice, well made, but no sound of its own.
I bet original speakers were proprietary / custom made and nobody knows their specs (except Martin Audio, that is) but in general you should buy a couple "good" speakers from a reputed manufacturer and you won´t be far from the originals.
Search for some 12" speaker specified for midrange use (not woofer only and even ledd subwoofer) from: Beyma , RCF , Faital Pro , JBL, EV ... you cant go wrong.
Personally these days I prefer the European makers which keep investigating and on the front edge of technology rather than the US makers which mostly live on past memories.
I would check out speakers from Celestion, Fane or perhaps even Goodmans?, one of those was probably the manufacturer of the originals?.
Back in the 70's we reverse-engineered an Altec bin (hired one for a night
), it cost us £8 in wood to make the cabinets, and we fitted cheap Goodmans 12P speakers (8 ohm 50W) which cost £12 - so £20 per bin.
We built 4, used two each side of the stage, along with a large HH Electronics HF horn on top, with internal passive crossover.
For an amplifier we used a Citronic 100W per channel slave amp - that was the entire PA
We even used it for outdoor gigs, seemed plenty loud enough at the time
Back in the 70's we reverse-engineered an Altec bin (hired one for a night
), it cost us £8 in wood to make the cabinets, and we fitted cheap Goodmans 12P speakers (8 ohm 50W) which cost £12 - so £20 per bin.We built 4, used two each side of the stage, along with a large HH Electronics HF horn on top, with internal passive crossover.
For an amplifier we used a Citronic 100W per channel slave amp - that was the entire PA
We even used it for outdoor gigs, seemed plenty loud enough at the time
i'm not refuting the original spec driver was ATC's in the european market but most of the Martin product in north america was RCF loaded.Yorkville Sound's woodworking plant was under contract to produce the boxes for a period of five years it was cheaper to make them here then to ship at the time (the early 80's).i spent the better part of 8 months loading MH 112,212,B115 and B215's with re-branded RCF's along with doing finish assembly (handles,casters,connectors, transformers).the first run of MH's that came out of the plant had to be retrofitted with new phase plugs because of the difference in driver profile.the other spec change that caused grief was the substitution of Switchcraft XLR's from the original Cannon/ITT connectors.
the ATC's where not available to the north american market at the time because of licensing and distribution contracts/agreements.
the ATC's where not available to the north american market at the time because of licensing and distribution contracts/agreements.
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Thanks a lot for all those informations.
So: different versions for Europe and US, RCF parts for US and ATCs for Europe.
Which also need differents phase plugs.
The one I can buy are probably European versions. So ATC units should be used, but probably impossible to find as new parts. And if it was dedidated parts for the MH-212, the only solution should be to find original ATC parts and recone it...
Not easy!
The PD-121 have probably not the same profile than the ATC.
A question for Turk182: do you remember the RCF references used for the B115 and B215?
Thanks!
So: different versions for Europe and US, RCF parts for US and ATCs for Europe.
Which also need differents phase plugs.
The one I can buy are probably European versions. So ATC units should be used, but probably impossible to find as new parts. And if it was dedidated parts for the MH-212, the only solution should be to find original ATC parts and recone it...
Not easy!
The PD-121 have probably not the same profile than the ATC.
A question for Turk182: do you remember the RCF references used for the B115 and B215?
Thanks!
Hi Turk,
I would like staying young too... I was listening to that Martin Audio system as I was a teenager... I falled in love with it the first time I heard it!
Could the 15" L15/554 RCF be the one used in those B115/B215? large magnet, moving mass not so high, not at all a sub but a good PA driver.
Thanks!
I would like staying young too... I was listening to that Martin Audio system as I was a teenager... I falled in love with it the first time I heard it!
Could the 15" L15/554 RCF be the one used in those B115/B215? large magnet, moving mass not so high, not at all a sub but a good PA driver.
Thanks!
Found on Martin Audio website (ModularPAdatasheet.pdf):
The loudspeakers used in the B115/B215 were the Martin B38, TAD TL-1601 or as alternative drivers, the JBL E140 or the Gauss 4583A.
Found in the Mseries_MidRangeHorns.pdf
For the MH-212, the drivers were the Martin M30 (maded by ATC?), 2 units used.
For the derived M300 and M600 medium horns (same size and aspect, radial mouth, compound exponential horn design), the drivers were the Martin M1230 (M300: 1 unit, M600: 2 units).
M1230 exhibits 3dB higher sensivity and increased power handling (200Wrms versus 75WRms); so higher max SPL (132.5dB/1m for the M600, against 126dB/1m for the MH-212).
As explained by Turk 182, the versions made in the USA used other drivers.
The loudspeakers used in the B115/B215 were the Martin B38, TAD TL-1601 or as alternative drivers, the JBL E140 or the Gauss 4583A.
Found in the Mseries_MidRangeHorns.pdf
For the MH-212, the drivers were the Martin M30 (maded by ATC?), 2 units used.
For the derived M300 and M600 medium horns (same size and aspect, radial mouth, compound exponential horn design), the drivers were the Martin M1230 (M300: 1 unit, M600: 2 units).
M1230 exhibits 3dB higher sensivity and increased power handling (200Wrms versus 75WRms); so higher max SPL (132.5dB/1m for the M600, against 126dB/1m for the MH-212).
As explained by Turk 182, the versions made in the USA used other drivers.
even after digging deeper into the jumbled mess that is my "archive" of tech notes i couldn't find anything (other than the stuff i had about the "phillishaves") about the RCF models that where "spec'd" for the canadian manufactured/produced Martin bass bins.
i can tell you from personal experience that JBL E 130 or 140 don't survive long in a B115
for that matter not many drivers can handle duty in either the 115 or 215 if the high pass filters are bad or missing(but nowdays with sophisticated x-overs and dsp it's less of an issue)
the one driver that i remember as a both less expensive and reasonably durable as a substitute for the RCF was the Fane Colossus 15
i can tell you from personal experience that JBL E 130 or 140 don't survive long in a B115
for that matter not many drivers can handle duty in either the 115 or 215 if the high pass filters are bad or missing(but nowdays with sophisticated x-overs and dsp it's less of an issue)
the one driver that i remember as a both less expensive and reasonably durable as a substitute for the RCF was the Fane Colossus 15
For replacement 18" sound (eighteensound) could be a good choice, because there is a very wide range of drivers available.
ask Mr. Steven Hutt for a suited driver
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AES Member Profile Steven Hutt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDPOF-TXqns
I was given two huge horn boxes; Two JBL 15 inch 2225, one martin Audio MH212 and one 2440 with 2441 diaphragms. The previous owner had removed the speakers. So far i have fitted to one box two JBL 2220's and have crossover at 500Hz to JBL 2446 or 2452 and Horn; I only use low power tube amps, so I find no need for 12 inch mid-range. Sounds very good to me. have just bought two more JBL 2220's.
phil
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