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Old 2nd March 2014, 08:19 PM   #1
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Post Obsolete EV speaker cab designs

Hi there,
Can anyone out there help with an 18" design based on the now-obsolete ElectroVoice Dominator.

I've a few pairs of Dominator 1B's and I would like to extend the system bass response by adding some similar design 18" bass-bins.

The TL4025 would work but it's a 15" and I already have the 18" drivers in some reflex cabinets.

Any Ideas?
The Sound Man
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Old 2nd March 2014, 09:25 PM   #2
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What 18" drivers do you have?
How low do you want the subs to go?

My initial thought is to build some MTL-1x copies but like most designs of this age response drops like a rock below 50hz so it's barely a "sub" by today's standards, and the same drivers in a standard bass reflex enclosure out preform the MTL in every way.. more lowend extension and more SPL. Much depends upon what you got to work with.
Click the image to open in full size.


The Dominator most closely resembles a W-bin if I'm thinking about the right cabinet, and again that is more of a bass bin than a subwoofer these days but it might just do the job for you.
Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by conanski; 2nd March 2014 at 09:45 PM.
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Old 3rd March 2014, 08:36 AM   #3
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Hi Conanski
The dominator looks like a "W" bin but is a lot more complex.
It has a forward firing speaker which is then re-directed to the rear of the cabinet through a throat.
My existing Dominators reach 50hz cleanly with a 15"driver and have massive throw and spl(amazing for their time).
I have 8x P.Audio HP18W which I would like to use.
thanks.
John(thesoundman)[
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Old 3rd March 2014, 08:41 AM   #4
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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this should be punchy for a relatively small cabinet
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 3rd March 2014, 09:37 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Cory View Post
I have 8x P.Audio HP18W which I would like to use.
[
After looking up the specs unfortunately those drivers aren't suitable for a modern sub design.. only 2mm Xmax.
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Old 4th March 2014, 06:02 PM   #6
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Hi Conanski.
This is the reason why I want to use the EV "W" bin or TL4025 type design as these speaker cabinet designs do not require a large Xmax.

You will see what I mean if you look at the design/construction of the "Dominator 1B" where the rear of the speaker is in a small sealed enclosure and the front of the speaker couples through a throat.

Any further advice?
Regards.
The Sound Man
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Old 4th March 2014, 07:12 PM   #7
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Do a web search for 18" W bin plans and you will get lots of results. Many of them seem to use a ported driver chamber but there are a few designs like the one below that are sealed. In all cases you will need to make sure you use a steep low cut filter at 45-50hz to prevent driver damage from over excursion below system tuning.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 3rd April 2014, 09:29 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freddi View Post
this should be punchy for a relatively small cabinet
Click the image to open in full size.
Greetings -

My history building Karlson enclosures dates back from the late 70's to mid 80's, which was the 12" version for electric bass, specifically using the JBL K120 for that purpose. It was the only descent musical instrument speaker for that purpose that would fit in the box!

I built a 15" version of the box using an EVM 15L for a bass player friend of mine, and the vocalist in his band told me the bass sounded out of tune, then in tune. Not only I, but two friends familiar with enclosure design thought the guy was nutz. He was after all, prone to indulging in the cannabis on an hourly basis.

About two years later in 1985 on a gig, where during the second set I had to share a piece of music with the keyboard player on the other side of the stage, I noticed I was a bit flat, so I tuned up. After the song was over I returned to my side of the stage I noticed I was sharp.

It hit me like a ton of bricks! It appeared that off axis higher frequencies suffered from, lack of a better term, a doppler effect. It explained why the singer told me the bass sounded out of tune, then in tune. The singer noticed this because he was moving about the stage.

It was when I discovered the problem with the box I quit producing them. I built scores of those things too. The 12" box does such a good job for low frequencies however, that most of the inquiries I got about the box were what brand of 15" speaker was I using. Some folks wouldn't believe there was a 12" speaker in the box until I demonstrated that the box wasn't wide enough to house a 15" speaker. I got several orders on the spot between sets because of that. I was told by a number of folks that the bass "was cutting through the room like a knife".

I also received several orders on recommendation by Walter Woods. He told me the Karlson was the only box that worked well with his amplifiers, and that I was the only one in southern California building the 12" version. I was building Karlson's before Gauss got into the picture with the 18" version.

It wasn't until 2005 I was commissioned by John Tucker of Exemplar Audio to build complementary Karlson sub-enclosures using the ALTEC 515-8G for the horn system I built for him two years earlier. I believe he crosses the Karlson's over at 80Hz, or perhaps 50Hz, I don't remember. When I listened to the full system at his house I was blown away. The tight, articulate bass produced by the Karlson's was something I never expected. My only experience with the design was for electric bass.


I will suggest the Karlson is not the end-all-be-all of speaker design, but it does have it's merits. I built a pair for our P.A. system using the ALTEC 617 CoAx because I could fit 3 of them and a two space bass amp rack in the back seat of my Camero. On a gig I had the opportunity to listen to the P.A. system while a friend sat in, and noticed a huge high frequency hole in the center seating area. It was then I decided to make a pair of conventional bass reflex boxes and sell my remaining enclosures. I'm not convinced the design of the Karlson as a full range Hi-Fi cabinet is the best application of the exponential slot, but rather a slot cut in a straight axis round or rectangle tube with the driver at the opposite end. A lot of folks have done this to be sure, including John Karlson.

The Exemplar system:

http://www.jenalabs.com/images/vsac2008-12-r.png

Last edited by Horn Fanatic; 3rd April 2014 at 09:43 AM.
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Old 7th May 2014, 08:12 AM   #9
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Do you have any drawings of the plans for the cabinets you built? I have been thinking of building some of these to experiment with.
thanks
jeff
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Old 8th May 2014, 08:15 AM   #10
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How much does size matter ? I have a plan somewhere for a Shearer type horn designed for an 18".

Regards

Charles
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