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Old 26th February 2014, 03:40 PM   #11
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Join Date: Mar 2013
What is it about the sound of your 15" 2-ways you don't like? I couldn't find any info on the ST220i is that a standard compression driver or a super tweeter? What are you using for a crossover on these?

Horn loaded mids are loud and efficient but they are often very harsh sounding, in comparison cone mids are less efficient but are still usually more efficient than low frequency drivers so it's not a problem to get a balanced sound.
In the past there were lots of 3-way cabs built with the design below, It's relatively easy and compact but the location of the mid and hi drivers is less than ideal.
Click the image to open in full size.

Most modern 3 way designs put all drivers in a vertical column, human hearing is less sensitive to comb filtering in the vertical axis than in the horizontal axis, and placing the mid and high freq drivers at the very top makes it easier to get them overhead where they won't get blocked by bodies.
Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by conanski; 26th February 2014 at 03:53 PM.
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Old 26th February 2014, 04:35 PM   #12
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Salvador, BA, BRAZIL
Hi Conanski,
There is no Bass, and the Highs are too bright.
I am using a 2 way Passive Crossover:
Freqüêncy: 1,8 KHz @ 4 ou 8 Ohms (woofer)
Máxima potência: 370 W (rms)
Tipo de Filtro: Linkwitz-Riley
Ordem: 2ª-ordem - 12dB/8ª -driver ; 1ª ou 2ª ordem-woofer

I liked the Modern 3 way cabinet. Do you have Plans for it?


Sorry, the driver is D220ti ans Here are the specs:
Impedance 8ohms
Frequency response @-6 dB 1,000 to 21,000 Hz
Throat diameter 1"
Magnet weight 24oz (675g)
Housing material Plastic
Voice coil material Kapton®/CCAW
Horn connection Screw-on

The Woofer is JBL Selenium (made Brazil)
Diâmetro 15"
RMS 300W
Programa Musical 600W
SPL 1W@1m 97dB
Resp. Frequencia @-10dB 40 a 4.500Hz
Frequência de ressonância 45Hz
Diâmetro da bobia 60mm
Peso do imã 1.300g
Impedância 8ohms

And I am planning to Add this 8" Cone Mid Bass:
Impedância Nominal 8 Ohms
Resposta de Frequência 68~5.000 Hz
Freq. Mínima de Corte 150 Hz
Sensibilidade 1W/1M 95,5 dB
Potência RMS 200 w
Potência de Programa 400 w
Diâmetro da Bobina 2"


PARÂMETROS TS
Frequência de Ressonância Fs 59 Hz
Resistência da Bobina Re 5,7 Ohms
Fator de Qualidade Total Qts 0,36
Fator de Qualidade Mecânica Qms 4,90
Fator de Qualidade Elétrica Qes 0,40
Volume equivalente do Falante Vas 36 L
Área efetiva do Cone Sd 0,028 m²
Deslocamento Máximo Xmax ± 5,0 mm


Thanks
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Old 26th February 2014, 04:54 PM   #13
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Join Date: Oct 2012
how big is the box their in now and is it vented or sealed you mentioned that you had them in a trapezoidal enclosure?
a series resistor to the horn driver to "pad" the level from the x-over could help but if your planning to implement an active crossover that a moot point.
i tried to copy an image of a design for a horn loaded 3 way designed for Selenium drivers but wasn't successful (i'm not the most computer savy) it referenced as PAS3MA3 i don't know if googling that will lead you to the plans i'm thinking of.
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Old 26th February 2014, 05:45 PM   #14
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Salvador, BA, BRAZIL
Hi Turk,
The Speakers are small , around 80cm H, 43cm w, 50cm d.
The PAS3MA3 Design are good, but would be dificult to build. I would prefer a regular Box like the example Conanski posted, the Modern 3 way design.
Antonio
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Old 26th February 2014, 06:05 PM   #15
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Join Date: Oct 2012
so sealed or ported?
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Old 26th February 2014, 06:10 PM   #16
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Salvador, BA, BRAZIL
Ported. two small holes under the woofer
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Old 27th February 2014, 02:18 AM   #17
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by altsouza View Post
Hi Conanski,
There is no Bass, and the Highs are too bright.
Bass with PA drivers requires very large cabs so there is almost no point using a 15" like this in a "fullrange cab".. I won't use anything bigger than a 12" for example and I don't even try to make them produce any serious amount of bass. The solution to that is to add subs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by altsouza View Post
I am using a 2 way Passive Crossover:
Freqüêncy: 1,8 KHz @ 4 ou 8 Ohms (woofer)

Sorry, the driver is D220ti ans Here are the specs:
That is a very good compression driver.. I have the older version (D210Ti) so I know it is capable of good sound. What I don't see is a crossover component known as an L-pad, it is a resistor network that goes between the crossover high output and the CD to reduce it's output so it better blends with the low freq driver output. In this case you need 9db of attenuation, go to the link below and input 8ohm, 9db, and 50w and then buy some 15w and 25w power resistors in values as close as you can get to the values indicated and install them in your speakers as indicated. L-Pad (Driver Attenuation Circuit) Designer / Calculator

Last edited by conanski; 27th February 2014 at 02:21 AM.
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Old 27th February 2014, 02:31 PM   #18
wg_ski is offline wg_ski  United States
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by conanski View Post
Bass with PA drivers requires very large cabs so there is almost no point using a 15" like this in a "fullrange cab".. I won't use anything bigger than a 12" for example and I don't even try to make them produce any serious amount of bass. The solution to that is to add subs.
Depends what you're trying to acheive. Full range 15" 3 way cabs are the bomb for getting 50-60 is Hz "bass" at moderate levels - more than a 10 or 12 that's rolling off like a brick wall at 80 and can't take any bass boost. One amp, one pair of speakers, just plug and play. That's why EON15's are so popular, but I prefer a good 3 way DIY and separate amp. The other instance is if you're already using subs, especially TH's that can't cross above 80-ish and your program material requires a wide mid-bass (80-200 Hz) hump that the subs aren't covering. 12's will struggle, 15's won't. Kick bin horns won't either, but that's a more complex setup.

My mid size DJ rig uses 2x12" tops, but the only low end boost I want is below 50 so the 12's are fine on top. Trying to run a band through the same rig doesn't work as well and out come the 15" 3 ways (with the same subbage). The 3 ways are fine by themselves if all I am doing is background music (the 12's don't have enough bass).
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Old 27th February 2014, 03:41 PM   #19
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by altsouza View Post
The Speakers are small , around 80cm H, 43cm w, 50cm d.
With an 80cm x 43cm(31" x 16.5") baffle how is it you don't have enough room to install an 8" mid? How big is the horn?
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Old 27th February 2014, 08:16 PM   #20
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Salvador, BA, BRAZIL
Thank you Guys,
Conanski, I am going to build or buy a new cabinet, and I will add a 8" cone.
I have a few more questions:
1) I can buy this cabinet (photo) for us$300 pair. This cabinet is 1x15 1x12. 1xdriver and one tweeter.
I can make some modifications to acomodate a 8" cone, and skip the tweeter port. What do you think?
2) the same manufacturer makes a 2x15 plus driver. What are the sonic/aplication diferences between 3 way and 2x15+driver?

The cabinets are well made and easier for me. I will save time!!

Thanks

Click the image to open in full size.

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