I like chris661's idea. Sometimes just making it work is what you are after. I have a drum monitor with an 8 and tweeter that I hook up to my phone for the garage and its perfect. To address your idea of adding an 8 or 10, heres a somewhat low priced solution.
make two cabinets
each with an 8" woofer and tweeter and an internal crossover
(8") Dayton Audio DC200-8 8" Classic Woofer | 295-310
(tweeter) Selenium ST200 Super Tweeter | 264-348
(crossover) Dayton Audio XO2W-2K 2-Way Crossover 2,000 Hz | 260-140
later you can add a pass coil to take you 8" up higher to 100hz above the sub.
Run these off your home amp
Change the single 15" running 0-2KHZ on a pro amp to 0-100hz
Done and will get really loud and have great seperation.
make two cabinets
each with an 8" woofer and tweeter and an internal crossover
(8") Dayton Audio DC200-8 8" Classic Woofer | 295-310
(tweeter) Selenium ST200 Super Tweeter | 264-348
(crossover) Dayton Audio XO2W-2K 2-Way Crossover 2,000 Hz | 260-140
later you can add a pass coil to take you 8" up higher to 100hz above the sub.
Run these off your home amp
Change the single 15" running 0-2KHZ on a pro amp to 0-100hz
Done and will get really loud and have great seperation.
Well most of that sounds good but why can't I have the 15" go higher? With this 15" alone I have more oomph in the mids than I've ever heard, I wanted to let it be free up to 1 or 2KHZ and I don't understand how that might heart?
Also, most of that is more than I wanted to spend, especially the crossover. I don't want to blow $60 out the window just on crossovers, plus the active one in front of the bi amps.
Thanks for your help though everyone, we're getting somewhere.
you can, if you place your 'satelites' on top of the woofer cab
but maybe 2khz is a bit too optimistic
maybe 6", with bullet tweeter, crossed around 5khz (maybe)
and better think active right away
that money could almost buy you this speaker
its a 12" woofer with 3" 'tweeter cone'
I think it looks quite clever
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15"ers run into serious cone break-up to get to a couple of kHz, and the frequency response will only get more ragged the higher you go**. You simply can't have a rigid piston that big at those frequencies without extreme compromises elsewhere. Our current materials won't allow it.
** I'd say a couple of kHz is about the limit of what a 15" ought to be asked to do. I'd aim to cross as low as the compression driver will comfortably stand. Almost all of them will stand 2.5kHz at loud levels. More expensive ones will hit 900Hz or so, but could well be out of your price range.
The big question here, is this: what exactly do you want?
We know you like this driver, so lets make sure that gets used.
Do you want a pair of speakers for stereo, or is mono okay?
Can you get another woofer like it?
If it was mine, I'd set off with that driver plus a compression driver, and see how it sounds.
Then move to a stereo pair if that's what's wanted.
Then add a 6" PA midrange driver to cover 500Hz-3kHz. That'd give the compression driver an easier time, and widen up dispersion in the hundreds of Hz.
Chris
Designing a PA with a flat response is no small feat, PA drivers are designed for efficiency and power handling first and the stiff light cones usually come with resonances that are difficult to notch out. Crossovers that accomplish this can be complicated and expensive, this one reason active PA speakers are good way to go.
If you are using this for home and not driving the snot out of it a decent dome like the Vifa DX25T may be robust enough. Like the others have said the off-axis output usually suffers on a 15" above 1500hz which is why I recommended the cheap MCM that you can x-over at 1000hz.
If you are using this for home and not driving the snot out of it a decent dome like the Vifa DX25T may be robust enough. Like the others have said the off-axis output usually suffers on a 15" above 1500hz which is why I recommended the cheap MCM that you can x-over at 1000hz.
If I have only mono than yes the satellite will be on top of the woofer or right next to it, if stereo the satellites still won't wander more than 8ft.
Well there's no way I'm going with active speakers.
Yes I'll use these in a small room at home 99% of the time, however I LOVE loud music, I want to be able to push everything for hours at a time, and I'd like to be able to pretty much max everything for hours at a time in case I ever do go to a friends or have a party or something.
So the update to what I'm thinking is like this:
1x 15" woofer running 0-1KHZ on a pro amp
1x or 2x satellite boxes with:
6-10" midrange woofer running 1-5KHZ
SuperTweeter/BulletTweeter running 5KHZ-on up
The tweeter I'd like to use is the Selenium ST200 Super Tweeter | 264-348 because of a few reasons, it's JBL, it's 105dB, its 8ohm, however I'm not sure how far 70watts on that will carry me.
The problems with the Vifa that I see are that its 4ohm and that it is more delicate, and that its only 96dB.
These are a bit more expensive, however, if you guys can convince me that both of these would be the best option
Pyle PDS182 1.5" Titanium Horn Driver 8 Ohm | 292-2618
Goldwood GT-400PB 1" Horn 1-3/8"-18 TPI | 270-095
I'll definitely consider it because it seems to have the best of everything, durability, 103db, 8ohms, and a big 120WRMS, not to mention it looks professional (I like to show off my stuff
)Not sure as far as the midrange woofers go, found these but they might be junk: Pyle PDMW6 6-1/2" Mid-Woofer | 292-204
Let me know what you guys are thinking, I appreciate all of the help.
I don't know
there could be a few lucky ones
but in general, I'm afraid the very cheap PA drivers are crap
it may be possible to find a good one
but that means a lot testing different drivers
probably cheaper to just buy a proven good one right away
maybe Eminence or FaitalPro
how much do you know about crossovers, in general ?
there could be a few lucky ones
but in general, I'm afraid the very cheap PA drivers are crap
it may be possible to find a good one
but that means a lot testing different drivers
probably cheaper to just buy a proven good one right away
maybe Eminence or FaitalPro
how much do you know about crossovers, in general ?
I'm not interested in wasting money to pay for a brand. Besides, what's wrong with the selenium tweeter, it has a JBL logo?
When I said there's no way I'm going for active speakers, I was tired and meant powered speakers.
I know enough about crossovers, not that much to know about them anyway. I definitely do want to do active crossovers so I can have a bi or tri amped configuration.
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You literally need a compression driver with horn to sit atop your current cabinet, and you'd have full-range sound.
Say, this
Eminence ASD1001 1" HF Titanium Horn Driver 1-3/8"-18 TPI | 290-525
and this
Denovo SEOS-12 Waveguide 2/3 Bolt Matte with Adapter | 300-7070
Midrange drivers can happen later. Lets get a basic two-way going first. It'll be a little rough around the edges, but it'll give you some idea of what to do next: if you want it louder, build another. If you want a smoother midrange, then consider adding a midrange driver and going three-way. You've said you like the midrange on this driver, so lets keep it for the time being.
You literally need a compression driver with horn to sit atop your current cabinet, and you'd have full-range sound.
Say, this
Eminence ASD1001 1" HF Titanium Horn Driver 1-3/8"-18 TPI | 290-525
and this
Denovo SEOS-12 Waveguide 2/3 Bolt Matte with Adapter | 300-7070
Midrange drivers can happen later. Lets get a basic two-way going first. It'll be a little rough around the edges, but it'll give you some idea of what to do next: if you want it louder, build another. If you want a smoother midrange, then consider adding a midrange driver and going three-way. You've said you like the midrange on this driver, so lets keep it for the time being.
Agreed, go back to your original idea and just add a decent compression driver and see what you think. If you do decide to add a midrange driver later on you can experiment with crossover frequencies but you will find that eliminating any crossovers where human hearing is most sensitivive(1khz to 5khz) produces the most natural sound, or crossing from the 15 to the mid at 800-1khz and from the mid to the tweeter at 5-6khz for example.
Well the reason I don't want to just try a compression driver alone is that I don't want to have to waste money. Does that mean I need to make an enclosure for this compression driver and horn or can I literally just set it somewhere to see how it sounds? I don't want to cut up some nice wood only to find I want a midrange and have to scrap the tiny box then.
The other problem is crossovers, I really really want an active crossover, but they seem quite expensive, even on eBay. I think I'm going to do some research into PLLXO's.
Either way, I've decided that when I do place an order, I'm getting these:
Pyle PDS182 1.5" Titanium Horn Driver 8 Ohm | 292-2618
Goldwood GT-400PB 1" Horn 1-3/8"-18 TPI | 270-095
The other problem is crossovers, I really really want an active crossover, but they seem quite expensive, even on eBay. I think I'm going to do some research into PLLXO's.
Either way, I've decided that when I do place an order, I'm getting these:
Pyle PDS182 1.5" Titanium Horn Driver 8 Ohm | 292-2618
Goldwood GT-400PB 1" Horn 1-3/8"-18 TPI | 270-095
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You can do an active crossover using Foobar 2000, a cheapie 6-channel surround soundcard, and a stereo amplifier.
So I'm thinking use that pyle compression driver and goldwood horn and a cheap 8" mid I found that has good reviews: Pyramid Studio Pro WH8 8" Woofer Accordian Surround | 290-260
Now I'm wondering what to do in terms of a box for all this? I think I'll order one of everything for now, maybe make a second box later. I don't want to order the drivers until I figure out how much carpet I need to cover it so I need to know how big to make this box.
I'm wondering what to do for a crossover on this box with the mids and highs, I'm thinking one amp for this box and just have a passive XO in the box, however I'm worried the mids will be drown out (89DB/W) by the compression driver (103DB/
W)...
Doing the crossover on a PC sounds like a good idea, more professional and flexible to have a dedicated box to do it though, I'll keep looking around.
Now I'm wondering what to do in terms of a box for all this? I think I'll order one of everything for now, maybe make a second box later. I don't want to order the drivers until I figure out how much carpet I need to cover it so I need to know how big to make this box.
I'm wondering what to do for a crossover on this box with the mids and highs, I'm thinking one amp for this box and just have a passive XO in the box, however I'm worried the mids will be drown out (89DB/W) by the compression driver (103DB/
W)...
Doing the crossover on a PC sounds like a good idea, more professional and flexible to have a dedicated box to do it though, I'll keep looking around.
Don't mess with those - they are not sensitive enough. If you're still looking for decent 6" mids that play loud cheap, try the Dayton 6" PK165. I used those to "upgrage" some Alpha 6's that I've been using in my car setup and it's night and day difference. I was shocked at how much cleaner they played. They are about 93dB/W, and when you add typical bandpass gain in a passive x/o (and baffle step) it will meet up with most 12's or 15's that you would use for this type of box.
The Faital Pro 6" are pretty good too, but they're back in the $45 territorry and are only about 90dB/W.
The Faital Pro 6" are pretty good too, but they're back in the $45 territorry and are only about 90dB/W.
Thank you for your help, I'll consider different mids.
Also, I need to know what box I'm building so I can order this stuff already.
The picture attached to this post is currently what I'm thinking of buying.
I decided to go with those pyle mids for a few reasons, same frequency response as the daytons you suggested, good reviews, same sensitivity, $10 cheaper. The cap and coil is for a 3000hz crossover on the mid and high that I saw on some website.
Let me know what you guys think.
I decided to go with those pyle mids for a few reasons, same frequency response as the daytons you suggested, good reviews, same sensitivity, $10 cheaper. The cap and coil is for a 3000hz crossover on the mid and high that I saw on some website.
Let me know what you guys think.
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I'd still say you're throwing away money by not trying just your driver with a compression driver on a horn. No woodworking required. All you'd need is some kind of active crossover and a 2-channel amplifier. The active crossover itself (assuming you've a Windows computer) could be done via Foobar2000 with a cheapie USB 5.1 soundcard. That'd cost tuppence (actually about the same as that inductor), and you'd be able to use that to test out any other crossovers you're thinking of trying.
You haven't included anything to cross between the woofer and the midrange, either.
FWIW, a closed-back midrange doesn't need more than a baffle anyway: there's no need for a cabinet as there's no rear-wave to process.
Chris
You haven't included anything to cross between the woofer and the midrange, either.
FWIW, a closed-back midrange doesn't need more than a baffle anyway: there's no need for a cabinet as there's no rear-wave to process.
Chris
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