Help - which diy sub plan for band/small indoor venues - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Live Sound > PA Systems

PA Systems A forum for discussion of all parts of a sound reinforcement or DJ system: loudspeakers, mixers (desks) etc.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 28th November 2013, 03:38 PM   #1
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Question Help - which diy sub plan for band/small indoor venues

Hi All,

I've been looking at numerous sites trying to come to terms with what the best bang-for-buck DIY sub plan is for a typical band playing small rooms (bars/restaurants/etc). In reality - for most shows the only thing that would be going though the sub will be the kick/bass drum as not every intrusment will be mic'd up.

I've been toying with the idea of BFM t24's - but I've read mixed reviews, and have not heard a tuba/horn before. Do these even work well in small venues?

They need to be as small and compact as possible as we do not have a giant van or trailer. We've used the Yorkville LS720P and it worked out pretty well. Is there anything in the DIY world that compares or surpasses?

The only reason I was curious about the tuba/horn route is overall cost and performance per dollar. Everything will have to bought, including an amp so $$$ counts.

I appreciate all repsonses - thanks guys!
  Reply With Quote
Old 28th November 2013, 09:44 PM   #2
diyAudio Member
chrispenycate's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Geneva, Switzerland
A proper horn loaded subwoofer is going to be physically very big, quite heavy and inconvenient to transport. It is, however going to be high efficiency, and require less amp power for the same acoustic output, and sound great; but I'm not sure that compensates for the transport difficulties. There are one or two tricks for bolt on extension – no, too complicated, too many things to forget, to lose.

Modern loudspeakers are built for high power handling, and power amplifiers are relatively cheap, and more reliable than they used to be, so going for a ported enclosure might be worthwhile. It will still be heavy (subwoofers always are; getting panels rigid for those frequencies, enough path length for polarity inversions means weight) but it will probably be less than half the size than the horn for the same low end response (course, it'll probably need four times the power to get the same performance). Yes, horns work for just about any driver, while reflex (ported) cabinets are tailored to the specific speakers, but it's reasonably easy to get plans for most drivers.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd December 2013, 11:54 AM   #3
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Connecticut
Sad as I am to say this, unless you have lots of birch plywood and spare 15" or 18" woofers lying around, plus unused amps to drive them, then there is not a chance you can surpass the best of the self powered subs around today at the same cost. Especially if you buy them in good used condition (if available).
Used passive subs and separate amps will become a better value if you expand to 4 or 8 or more subs. Huge power amps like the Camco Vortex 6 make 3000 watts at 2 ohms, per channel, and would power eight single 15" or 18" subs. That amp only weighs 28 lbs, and can be had used for less than $1700.
If you know you are never going to want that, 1 pair of powered subs will probably best fit your need.
You could easily surpass the quality with a used setup from a higher end company like Nexo, but the cost would be higher.
I'd recommend listening to any sub you are considering first. Also look at Max spl specs, both peak and average - noting the frequency range and if the test is done in free space, half space, or quarter space. Some woofers will have neodymium magnets (like the Yorkville). They will cost more, but weigh 10 - 15 lbs less.
All that being said, I've used Yorkville in the past and some of their products were lacking, while others were quite good. If the LS720P worked for you, I'd concentrate on getting a pair as cheap as possible. At 128 db continuous, and 135 peak at 87 lbs, they look good on paper for a cost of about $850 each.
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th December 2013, 03:09 PM   #4
troystg is offline troystg  United States
diyAudio Member
troystg's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In a dream... Please don't wake me.
This is the easy route:

Behringer B1800D-PRO Eurolive 1400W 18" Powered Subwoofer | 248-6546

One or two of the woofers and an amp will work and you can build on it by adding more subs as required...

Behringer B1800X PRO Eurolive 18" Subwoofer | 248-635

Crown XLS 1500 DriveCore Series Power Amplifier | 245-502

or this to help tame room modes...

Behringer NU3000DSP iNUKE 3000 Watt Power Amplifier w/DSP | 248-6706
Thinking positive doesn't make things better, it makes you a better person.
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th December 2013, 10:28 PM   #5
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Connecticut
Here's a perfect example of why I said to read the specs carefully when comparing subs. The Behringer sub B1800d is $175 cheaper than the Yorkville LS720P, but the Yorkville weighs 44 lbs less, and plays 2db louder at peak output. Its made with Russian Birch plywood - just like you'd use on your own cabs, if you built them right.
Yorkville LS720P 15" Powered Subwoofer, Carpet Finish | Full Compass
The yorkville also has 3 way protection (Excursion, Thermal, Clip) just like the pros like Meyer and Nexo use. All that, plus a tunable bass boost eq control. Seems like a winner in a field of "me - too" products.
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th December 2013, 12:19 AM   #6
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
it's nice to have American gent sing the praises of canadian made product!
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2014, 07:38 PM   #7
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Montana Missoula
The LS720 is a great product and can be resold down the road but I built a pair of 15" reflex boxes and iNuke 6000dsp for less. The 135db spec is theoretical BTW.
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th January 2014, 10:04 AM   #8
dangus is offline dangus  Canada
diyAudio Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Vancouver Island
If it's just for the kick drum, build a bandpass box with a peak tuned appropriately. Hopefully that will give you the sensitivity of a horn, without paying the price in cabinet volume and weight. If you have some drivers lying around, try modeling them.
Subwoofer Box Enclosure Design Calculator - Sealed Ported Bandpass Closed Vented
Maybe a more complex bandpass is suitable. The 2/94 issue of Speaker Builder had the "Birdhouse" bandpass, which was used in a similar situation to yours. If I still have that issue, I ought to scan it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2014, 04:56 AM   #9
dangus is offline dangus  Canada
diyAudio Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Vancouver Island
Well, the 2/94 issue isn't with the rest from that year, but I found a followup article that analyzes the design, and concludes that the second port isn't necessary - it only helps reduce cone excursion at low frequencies or something.
  Reply With Quote


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Building a small ghettoblaster for mostly indoor use (TA2020) m4uer Class D 2 12th January 2012 03:05 PM
Anyone plan on trying the new Tang Band W4-1320SB? mazeroth Full Range 1 7th September 2005 03:51 AM
My DIY power cord plan dantwomey Everything Else 60 13th July 2003 12:23 PM
Good Venues Austin Everything Else 2 28th November 2002 02:30 AM

New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:08 PM.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2015 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2015 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2