Need help with a midbass horn - Page 2 - diyAudio
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Old 15th September 2013, 03:38 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by weltersys View Post
You can scale the TL-4025 or Keele W-bins down since 12" will be adequate for your needs and you are not looking for super low extension. Shrink the compression chamber a bit more than the 12/15 ratio.
The old EV Eliminator or Klipsch La Scala or old Peavey SP1 folded horns all would work OK too.
You can "unfold" those plans for a straight horn if you would like, but the FH use less wood, and tend to be well braced to start with

The HF will "clean up" a bit if you cross them at 400 Hz.
A 12" in a FLH of the type we are discussing will just about keep up with the Cobraflex, but if you want to go two 12" to one HF, that is fine.
Double the cones and they will only need half the power.

The Cobraflex would be best arranged in a vertical line, if you need more horizontal dispersion, arrange them like a "barber pole". If the vertical dispersion becomes more narrow than you care for, then arc the vertical in a "C" or "J".
Been quite busy here but got my shop all set up to start making sawdust!

And the football team has been doing well.

-Been using 4 of my EV cabinet speakers in an array in front of the press box to get us by until I can get the cobraflex horns refurbished and mounted up high properly. (They "work" but coverage is not that great and too much sound is getting back into the booth.) It is the only weather-resistant place to put them or I would distribute them around the field better.

The cobraflex horn drivers all gave up after the first time using them with the new amplification. 30 years of sitting outside in the North Dakota winters while being tapped at only 15 watts then suddenly being moved and given real power along with what the kids consider music nowadays :-) (even properly bandpassed) they didn't last through halftime. Can't figure out how to get the old university drivers apart to change diaphragms (model T-30). The 60W Dayton driver from Parts Express sounds really good on the cobraflex horns so I'm probably going to just order those instead of repairing the University ones. (I had one in my spares pile that I tried on one of the horns)

So unless we go to playoffs, the season will end before I can get bass horns built and installed so I'm thinking this will be a good winter project for proper installation next spring.

Stepping back from the whole project has made me wonder if all the older folded horn designs I've been getting from all the great recommendations in this thread represent the best of modern designs? Has anything improved in horn design in the last 30 years or are these designs still valid and as effective as anything designed from scratch today?
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Old 15th September 2013, 07:24 AM   #12
djk is offline djk
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Plans abount for the full LaScala (with top).

I drew up my own plans and cut list for just the bottom, and built 24 pcs circa 1978. Mine were modified to accomodate non-standard woofer frames up to 15.75" wide, anything except the 16" Altec versions.

If you google LaScala and then click on images the full plans will show up. You should be able to adapt them.

If you need some further help I can try and resurect my old plans.

I gave some tips on cutting the 60 angles at the Klipsch forum, and some general assembly ideas. Marvel (Bruce Brown) did a 3-D drawing that came out very good.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 15th September 2013, 07:30 AM   #13
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If you need to go to 40hz, search for 'vented LaScala', an idea of mine I came up with circa 1997.

Click the image to open in full size.

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/sto...ans%20HDBR.pdf

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/sto...la_correct.pdf
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Old 15th September 2013, 09:15 AM   #14
epa is offline epa  Netherlands
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another sugestion for 15"driver.
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 15th September 2013, 09:45 AM   #15
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A little big for what it does, but it looks good.
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Old 15th September 2013, 11:03 AM   #16
epa is offline epa  Netherlands
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tnx dj
ive desgned these for olsound.he had some seleniums laying around.

ive actualy heard the lascala horn a long long time ago,i rmember they sounded verry dynamic and clean.
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Old 15th September 2013, 04:51 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by ndcraig View Post
Stepping back from the whole project has made me wonder if all the older folded horn designs I've been getting from all the great recommendations in this thread represent the best of modern designs?
Has anything improved in horn design in the last 30 years or are these designs still valid and as effective as anything designed from scratch today?
The old designs had to be good to cover a wide bandwidth with low power and little EQ available.

Most modern folded horn designs are for "sub" use, and as such the upper response is not as much a concern as it was in the "olden days".

Although some modern designs are more space efficient and truck pack dimensions, neither of those concern your installation.

About the only thing "new" in horn design is the Tom Danley Synergy designs, which offer good sensitivity and much better pattern control than the designs so far put forth, but require an integrated use of LF, MF, and HF drivers on a single horn.

Since the T-30s are toast, you might consider selling off the Cobraflex and starting from scratch with a large format Synergy style horn along the lines of the DSL SH-50 or JH-90 (Jericho Horn).
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Old 15th September 2013, 09:35 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by djk View Post
If you google LaScala and then click on images the full plans will show up.
Actually taking you literally nets several thousand results of an opera house in Milan.
Looks really impressive, had to take a Wikipedia detour to learn more.
(I'm figuring it's what Klipsch named the speakers after.)

So "LaScala Plans" works even if the results are in German. :-)
I was thinking of doing the full-size box and mounting the Cobraflex horns in the place of the Mid & HF horns -it would keep them out of the weather.

Might have to rethink that though if I want to do what Welter recommended of vertical stacking the horns. I might just build a simple shed enclosure over the whole cluster instead to weatherproof it. (Building materials, tools and time are free commodities around here)
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Old 15th September 2013, 09:53 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by weltersys View Post
The old designs had to be good to cover a wide bandwidth with low power and little EQ available.

Most modern folded horn designs are for "sub" use, and as such the upper response is not as much a concern as it was in the "olden days".

Although some modern designs are more space efficient and truck pack dimensions, neither of those concern your installation.

About the only thing "new" in horn design is the Tom Danley Synergy designs, which offer good sensitivity and much better pattern control than the designs so far put forth, but require an integrated use of LF, MF, and HF drivers on a single horn.

Since the T-30s are toast, you might consider selling off the Cobraflex and starting from scratch with a large format Synergy style horn along the lines of the DSL SH-50 or JH-90 (Jericho Horn).
I can get 3 really good sounding loud drivers brand new for $135 and the Cobraflex are back in business.
I seriously doubt I could pull the tens of thousands out of our town of 350 people for a new Danley system.
The cobraflex's will work fine by themselves once I get them back in place, My horn project was just to add another couple lower octaves to them on my own dime.

(Funny, all the other pro audio forums I lurk on use Danley as the answer to absolutly everything. I still think they are mythical as I've never seen a single Danley product in the wild
-but then again I don't get out much anymore.

There's enough new oilwell millionaires around here that it might be a future possibility (either Danley or whatever newer/better eventually supplants it)

Meanwhile i'm unemployed and essentially on disability. I'm donating my services just to keep from getting "rusty" and like I said on other posts, I have tons of materials, a large shop, my large audio "boneyard" and plenty of free help around town.

I now have to decide which ones to build. I'm liking the LaScala size and ease of build but always been partial to the EV stuff. Some old Peavey FH-1's showed up an an estate auction the other day. Missed out on that, but they would have worked fine too!
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Old 15th September 2013, 10:04 PM   #20
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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