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Old 16th February 2013, 04:19 PM   #11
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"Sound System Engineering" by Don and Carolyn Davis is the best.
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Old 16th February 2013, 04:28 PM   #12
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Thank you for the reply,
Could you please elaborate more on the subjext?
I understand the pink noise , but why 1/3 octave?
And which 3 jobs you mean?
Again a manual or some lterature would help I am real noob.
I did once some tests with a FFT scope and a pink noise generator, but with uncertain results..

I will look for that book maybe at the Uni library. What year is it about?
In the old days very narrow filters were used.
Later, through trial and error it was found that 1/3 octave worked better.
1/3 octave will not detune with room temperature changes as narrower filters will.
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Old 16th February 2013, 05:56 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by mickeymoose View Post
I believe the yellow bible, as it once was known, "Sound System Engineering" by Don and Carolyn Davies is still the best reference. I hope it was updated! E
Good suggestion, thanks! I will have a look at the library.
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Old 16th February 2013, 06:06 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by mickeymoose View Post
I believe the yellow bible, as it once was known, "Sound System Engineering" by Don and Carolyn Davies is still the best reference. I hope it was updated! E
Yes it has been updated.
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Old 16th February 2013, 06:06 PM   #15
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[QUOTE=Jsixis;3371144, if you have a sub it is recommended center stage is the best place for it but live sound is live sound, Sub woofers have been debated since they were made, I believe they should be next to each other, preferably as center to the room as you can get or right against a wall. I know 2 completely theories there but every room is different, one can do the math and go crazy or just keep experimenting.

I use a Rane AC22 crossover that can add up to a 2ms delay to the sub and that seems to help the low end.
I also have a BBE 442 that lets me clear up the highs (not sure if it delays or advances the high end) by turning the high control knob on that up 2-3 clicks over the low setting it lets the horns on my peavey SP2G speakers really shine. Usually my low volume knob will be on 4 and the high volume knob will be around 6 the BBE changes the phase relationship of the drivers.[/QUOTE]
Very true. One of the few times that I had very good response from the audience was the one that a friend had given me some kind of monster sub. Ita was 1000W unit, mono. I did put it in the center (where else you put a mono...) and passively mixed he inputs. Nobody ever noticed it was mono, as it had 2 x 18" drivers.

The second part of your remarkable post drives me on the Phase problem.
OK, with the graphic equalizer we might flatten amplitude, but what about phase? from your post it looks like IT IS a problem.
BTW that Sub I had wired out of phase, it was sounding much better that way.
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Old 16th February 2013, 06:24 PM   #16
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RTA, other problems that I see...
First, small problem you probably need a RF microphome (or better a RF bridge for your measurement microphone) if you venue is less than small.
I assume you let the instrument on your rack near the graphic equalizer, hook it in on a line input of the mixer and you move around with the microphone.

Second, where to measure? OK, front-center has priority, but then?
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Old 16th February 2013, 06:26 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by myhrrhleine View Post
Yes it has been updated.
Thanks for your update. Any reference (edition, year, etc?).
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Old 16th February 2013, 07:00 PM   #18
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Sound System Engineering: Don Davis, Eugene Patronis: 9780240808307: Amazon.com: Books

Sound System Engineering 4e, Fourth Edition: Don Davis, Eugene Patronis: 9780240818467: Amazon.com: Books
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Old 16th February 2013, 10:43 PM   #19
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Sound Systems: Design and Optimization: Modern Techniques and Tools for Sound System Design and Alignment: Bob McCarthy: 9780240521565: Amazon.com: Books

This book is far and away the best on the subject of tuning rooms, time alignment and system layouts in general. Nothing else comes close. Read that before you pay any attention to the advice in this thread. This topic has advanced by leaps and bounds in the last few years and I don't know another book as up to date regarding the current tools of the trade.

When it comes to tuning, when in doubt, do as little as possible. Heavy handed eq does more harm than good to your phase coherence. Time alignment usually has a lot more to do with success than eq, and anything more than a few dB at a couple bands means that EQ is not the solution. Just like with mixing, it is always better to fix the source than to do "damage control" at the end of the signal chain.
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Old 17th February 2013, 02:55 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by adastra View Post
Sound Systems: Design and Optimization: Modern Techniques and Tools for Sound System Design and Alignment: Bob McCarthy: 9780240521565: Amazon.com: Books

When it comes to tuning, when in doubt, do as little as possible. Heavy handed eq does more harm than good to your phase coherence. Time alignment usually has a lot more to do with success than eq, and anything more than a few dB at a couple bands means that EQ is not the solution. Just like with mixing, it is always better to fix the source than to do "damage control" at the end of the signal chain.
Thanks a lot for this further recommendation. Looks like it is another good one (I was reading the reviews).
About the "minimalist approach" I fully agree, in any field of "tuning".
Problem is sometimes you have to do with horrible places. This summer, just as an example, I will probably have to help with a dance show that usually we do in a fine theater (although with old sound system). But there, once you got to the idea that you need a sub , you are almost fine. This year it looks like that for economy reasons they are doing it in a sort of school basketball playground.... Lot of glass, rectangular corners, no real stage, a nightmare. They said proper stuff will be rented, but I get that there will a lot of work with the room equalization,.
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