Hi
I am planning on using a pair of vintage EV S-1503 as the top boxes on a pair of PAS 1x18s
I am planning on crossing over into them at about 250, but i just heard the mids (the VMRs) kick in around 600, which means my 15 is only going to be covering about 250-600Hz, and I'm not sure if I should be worrying about that. Maybe not enough there to actually move the cone much, so I am thinking there might be a bit of a hole in that area. Maybe I should plan on just bumping it up a bit with my EQ??
Thoughts please?
Thanks
Phil
I am planning on using a pair of vintage EV S-1503 as the top boxes on a pair of PAS 1x18s
I am planning on crossing over into them at about 250, but i just heard the mids (the VMRs) kick in around 600, which means my 15 is only going to be covering about 250-600Hz, and I'm not sure if I should be worrying about that. Maybe not enough there to actually move the cone much, so I am thinking there might be a bit of a hole in that area. Maybe I should plan on just bumping it up a bit with my EQ??
Thoughts please?
Thanks
Phil
Hi
I don't know how it sounds; this is still in the wiring up phase, so it's all theoretical. It might sound fine. But it just popped into my head that if the 15s are only seeing such a narrow band (between maybe 300 - 600Hz) there might not be enough signal to drive a 15" to "push" a soundwave that would be able to compete with the 18s below them and the very efficient EV VMR Midrange above them - hence maybe a frequency dip, if not a hole.
I don't know how it sounds; this is still in the wiring up phase, so it's all theoretical. It might sound fine. But it just popped into my head that if the 15s are only seeing such a narrow band (between maybe 300 - 600Hz) there might not be enough signal to drive a 15" to "push" a soundwave that would be able to compete with the 18s below them and the very efficient EV VMR Midrange above them - hence maybe a frequency dip, if not a hole.
The 1503s work well at low powers (I've used mine for a very wide range of gigs) so there should be no problem of their efficiency holding up. Power compression on the vented mids if you try and drive the entire system too hard, perhaps. You could roll the lows off the 15s a bit slower and see if it gives a smoother transition, but basically the set up should work fine.
How come?
Of course they will "push a soundwave" at whatever frequency you throw at them.
That's what speakers do.
As a side note: if the 18" get nothing above 250 Hz, and the VMR nothing below 600Hz , who do you think will be the king of the hill between 250 and 600 Hz?
Only way to get a hole there is disconnecting the 15" .
Hi
OK, well I wasn't planning on disconnecting the 15
I should have plenty of headroom not to clip anything, and there are limiters on the amp and crossover, so I guess I'll find out soon enough how it sounds.
I'm hoping for good things out of these PAS 18". I've used Eminence 18s before and was underwhelmed by them.
Phil
OK, well I wasn't planning on disconnecting the 15
I should have plenty of headroom not to clip anything, and there are limiters on the amp and crossover, so I guess I'll find out soon enough how it sounds.
I'm hoping for good things out of these PAS 18". I've used Eminence 18s before and was underwhelmed by them.
Phil
PAS are very good and relatively little known.
I heard them do their thing in SWR Bass Guitar cabs, which not surprisingly are considered some of the best (if not actually the best) in that area.
I have also repaired them (and done a little "reverse engineering" a.k.a. "cloning" too )
Very sharp and defined sound.
I heard them do their thing in SWR Bass Guitar cabs, which not surprisingly are considered some of the best (if not actually the best) in that area.
I have also repaired them (and done a little "reverse engineering" a.k.a. "cloning" too
)Very sharp and defined sound.
Why that high of a crossover point (250Hz)? Is the amp on the S-1503s small?
If the amps are relatively the same size for bass and highs (the HF amp has at least half the power of the bass amp), then a lower crossover will probably be in order- say, 150 Hz or so, maybe even 100 Hz. I find the system is usually a little less "muddy" sounding, with a lower crossover- many 18" cabs don't care for above-150Hz much.
The S-1503 is pretty efficient- all three drivers in that cabinet are close to 99dB or so sensitivity. They will get pretty loud on reasonable power. I would put them on about 300w/ch or so, and the bass on about 400w/ch (if the PAS 18" woofers have 3" voice coils) or about 500w/ch (if the PAS 18s have 4" voice coils). That should do a good job.
Regards,
Gordon.
If the amps are relatively the same size for bass and highs (the HF amp has at least half the power of the bass amp), then a lower crossover will probably be in order- say, 150 Hz or so, maybe even 100 Hz. I find the system is usually a little less "muddy" sounding, with a lower crossover- many 18" cabs don't care for above-150Hz much.
The S-1503 is pretty efficient- all three drivers in that cabinet are close to 99dB or so sensitivity. They will get pretty loud on reasonable power. I would put them on about 300w/ch or so, and the bass on about 400w/ch (if the PAS 18" woofers have 3" voice coils) or about 500w/ch (if the PAS 18s have 4" voice coils). That should do a good job.
Regards,
Gordon.
Hi
If you think 150Hz or so, then that's where I will look first. My reason for thinking 250 is because he isn't a DJ in any real sense of the word (unless he is doing karaoke versions of Paul Oakenfold) and he doesn't have a full-band hammering them, so I'm wondering what he will actually have in the bass to send to the subs. They may have nothing to do other than the occasional kick thump.
The PAS are 8-Ohm rated for 500 each. I have a bridged amp that will go (supposedly) to 2000 w @4-Ohms, so I have a good reserve.
The 1503s are being driven by one side of a Crown PowerBase 3 with about 750 w @4-Ohms, but this variant of the 1503 states on the connector plate that they are only 200 watts. You might be thinking of the 300 watt version that looks exactly the same; I don't think you are advising me to overdrive them to 300 watts are you?
I actually have four of the EVs available. I was thinking about using one PAS and two EVs per side. Would be physically heavy enough to crack pavement, and I would have to use both sides of the Crown (which I was going to use for monitors) but it would mean some pretty serious volume above the PAS units. Probably too much efficiency in the uppers now though, and maybe I couldn't drive all four hard enough to be satisfying.
Opinions welcome please?
Thanks
Phil
If you think 150Hz or so, then that's where I will look first. My reason for thinking 250 is because he isn't a DJ in any real sense of the word (unless he is doing karaoke versions of Paul Oakenfold) and he doesn't have a full-band hammering them, so I'm wondering what he will actually have in the bass to send to the subs. They may have nothing to do other than the occasional kick thump.
The PAS are 8-Ohm rated for 500 each. I have a bridged amp that will go (supposedly) to 2000 w @4-Ohms, so I have a good reserve.
The 1503s are being driven by one side of a Crown PowerBase 3 with about 750 w @4-Ohms, but this variant of the 1503 states on the connector plate that they are only 200 watts. You might be thinking of the 300 watt version that looks exactly the same; I don't think you are advising me to overdrive them to 300 watts are you?
I actually have four of the EVs available. I was thinking about using one PAS and two EVs per side. Would be physically heavy enough to crack pavement, and I would have to use both sides of the Crown (which I was going to use for monitors) but it would mean some pretty serious volume above the PAS units. Probably too much efficiency in the uppers now though, and maybe I couldn't drive all four hard enough to be satisfying.
Opinions welcome please?
Thanks
Phil
IME, though they were rated differently, there is no significant difference in the construction of the "200w" and "300w" EV 1503s. Same crossover, same horn driver, same woofer.
At some times, they changed the kit on the EV15B and EVI15 drivers, to a more modern voice coil former material- that's the basis for the extra power handling, from what I've seen, having taken many of these apart (I recone and repair speakers, for an EV-authorized service center, BTW). Once that woofer is reconed with the new kit, it then will handle 300w, no problem.
So, if you're in doubt- a recone of the woofers will take care of it. Once that's done, 300w is no problem.
Regards,
Gordon.
At some times, they changed the kit on the EV15B and EVI15 drivers, to a more modern voice coil former material- that's the basis for the extra power handling, from what I've seen, having taken many of these apart (I recone and repair speakers, for an EV-authorized service center, BTW). Once that woofer is reconed with the new kit, it then will handle 300w, no problem.
So, if you're in doubt- a recone of the woofers will take care of it. Once that's done, 300w is no problem.
Regards,
Gordon.
Apart from high temp glues etc, EV also changed their testing method over the years, from their own band limited pink noise test to various EIA, AES and ANSI standards as they came out. So you even find different power ratings for identical drivers...
Looking at the EDS's for various models over the years is quite enlightening.
John
Looking at the EDS's for various models over the years is quite enlightening.
John
The original EVM-15B had an Xmax of 3.3mm and was rated at 100w continuous sine wave (at what frequency...who knows?
The EVM-15B Series II also had an Xmax of 3.3mm (same coil) but was rated at 200w per EIA Standard RS-426A
The EVM-15B PROLINE also had an Xmax of 3.3mm (same coil) but with an aluminum shorting ring attached the top of the pole piece to reduce dynamic compression and improve voice coil cooling. It was rated at 400w per EIA Standard RS-426A
The DL15X is the same as the EVM-15B PROLINE only with a longer voice coil, increasing the Xmax to 4.1mm. It is rated at 400w as well.
All of these drivers can be restored/upgraded with a DL15X recone kit. Just be aware that if the magnet pole piece does not have the aluminum shorting ring attached, the maximum thermal power capacity will be approximately 3db less.
The EVM-15B Series II also had an Xmax of 3.3mm (same coil) but was rated at 200w per EIA Standard RS-426A
The EVM-15B PROLINE also had an Xmax of 3.3mm (same coil) but with an aluminum shorting ring attached the top of the pole piece to reduce dynamic compression and improve voice coil cooling. It was rated at 400w per EIA Standard RS-426A
The DL15X is the same as the EVM-15B PROLINE only with a longer voice coil, increasing the Xmax to 4.1mm. It is rated at 400w as well.
All of these drivers can be restored/upgraded with a DL15X recone kit. Just be aware that if the magnet pole piece does not have the aluminum shorting ring attached, the maximum thermal power capacity will be approximately 3db less.
Last edited:
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.