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Old 19th August 2012, 03:02 PM   #1
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Default Incredible System, No Clue How To Use Correctly

What's up Everyone.

I have recently purchased a new FOH System. I have it up and running, but don't think that I have even scratched the surface on it's capabilities. Here is the gear list...

board - A&H Mixwizard3 16:2
amps - Crown XTI 4002 (2)
mains - JBL SRX 725 (2)
subs - JBL SRX 718S (2)
signal processer - dbx driverack pa+, bbe sonic maximizer 882i

I guess what my question is, how do I set this up to where I can run the signal of my kick drum and bass to just the subs, while having guitars and vocals in the mains?
The DBX Driverack PA+ states that it is a multi-functional tool (crossover, eq, compressor, limiter, synth, etc, but I can't seem to understand how to use any/all of these features.

Anyway, any/all help would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

LW
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Old 19th August 2012, 04:19 PM   #2
imix500 is offline imix500  United States
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Most engineers run the subs off a post fader aux to do exactly what you are wanting to do- keep all the stuff out of the subs that really doesn't need to be there.

Unfortunately the driverack only has two inputs, so you can't use it to process the subs if you are running the tops stereo. You could use the Processing in the Xti, it would just take a little longer to get them dialed in as far as allignment goes. Depending on the types of gigs you do, you may or may not need to tweak the allignment every time.

Try the BBE and see what you think. Personally I'm not a big fan of them. YMMV of course.
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Old 19th August 2012, 04:34 PM   #3
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Thanks for the reply. Is there another piece of equipment that I can add to my rack to accomplish what I am trying to do? We are a 4 piece band that travels regionally and play venues that hold from 300-800. I really want to hear the thunder from the kick, I know the system is capable of producing it, but I am obviously not running it correctly...
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Old 19th August 2012, 05:28 PM   #4
imix500 is offline imix500  United States
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Hi,
Well you could add another DRPA to handle subs and that would also work. What you lack is a way to do the low pass crossover and time allignment for the subs off an aux. The Xti has both built in so the solution could be there, but if you would prefer to have the ability to tweak from FOH you would need a seperate processor.
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Old 20th August 2012, 09:34 AM   #5
kctess5 is offline kctess5  United States
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Whats wrong with just setting it up normally?

By that I mean run all your mics into the main board, go from the board to the drive rack, driverack to amps, amps to speakers and subs. Just use the onboard crossover on the driverack to make sure all the bass goes to the sub.

Sure you will have a bit of the guitars in the subs and a tiny bit of kickdrum in the mains but as long as it's set up right that shouldn't risk any damage.

Of course if your intent is to have absolutely no bleed through between the subs and mains then that set up wouldn't do it.

As imix said the easiest way to do it setup wise would be to just run the mic on the kick bass directly to the sub amp. The only problem with that is you couldn't control those levels from the board...

Another way you could do it which would give you levels control is... (i like this one)

Go from all of of your instruments to the board, including the kick drum. Configure the drum onto one of the aux outputs, or use its direct output (whichever way allows you to not have that channel in the master mix) to go to the subwoofer amplifer. Then you go from the main outs to the driverack, main amps, etc. Then you can control the levels of everything at the board and have no crosstalk between the subs and mains. As long as the board allows you to use the direct or aux out while not mixing that channel in with the mains this should work, the board I've used at church (a beauty) let you do this if I remember right. That is the way I would try to set it up first, plus you don't need anymore hardware, just set it up now and see what you can do

What do you think?

Last edited by kctess5; 20th August 2012 at 09:36 AM.
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Old 20th August 2012, 09:49 AM   #6
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I have a hard time seeing why you would ever isolate bassguitar and kick-drum from the top. It will not sound very good. I have tried lot's of FOH's in my career, and have never seen anyone sending the kick drum or any other intrument just to the subs, or just to the top system.

If you don't know how to use compressor and limiter, then first try to disable them. If not used correctly they will mess up totally. Normally I would have seperate comps/gates/limiters on sub groups, and if sub groups are not available then on inserts. If the comp/gate/limiter works heavily on main out, then you will have a hard time to have good sound.

Last edited by Kjeldsen; 20th August 2012 at 09:55 AM.
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Old 20th August 2012, 11:07 AM   #7
imix500 is offline imix500  United States
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Just for clarification- most engineers that run aux fed subs do not usually isolate those instruments from a passband. Nor are the instrument run directly to the amps.
It's all about control. You can use the tops for the attack and the subs for the thump and have control over how much of each. Same goes for any channel that may be feeding the sub aux.
The key to it sounding as good as it can is setting the crossover point and slope for both correctly. High pass for the tops and low pass for the subs. You also want the two elements time aligned so both sources arrive at the same time. (of course it's an average as it can really only be aligned at one single point at a time)
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Old 20th August 2012, 11:25 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imix500 View Post
Just for clarification- most engineers that run aux fed subs do not usually isolate those instruments from a passband. Nor are the instrument run directly to the amps.
It's all about control. You can use the tops for the attack and the subs for the thump and have control over how much of each. Same goes for any channel that may be feeding the sub aux.
The key to it sounding as good as it can is setting the crossover point and slope for both correctly. High pass for the tops and low pass for the subs. You also want the two elements time aligned so both sources arrive at the same time. (of course it's an average as it can really only be aligned at one single point at a time)
Ok, but I still don't see the benefit. I just use the low cut or shelving eq, I don't want vocals or guitar in the sub. I'd rather use the sub groups for other purposes, since most of the times I have 4 sub groups and if I'm lucky I have 8
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Old 20th August 2012, 09:08 PM   #9
imix500 is offline imix500  United States
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Sorry, it's the slack terminology that gets confusing. I am only talking about running the signal to the subwoofers off of an aux send. Not having subgroups anywhere in this equation.
You could use a subgroup of course, but a better solution for that need would be to use a matrix off the console if available. That's how large theater rigs are often run. It's not unusual for the stereo fader to go unused in that case.
But, for the OP needs an aux is a good way to do it.
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Old 21st August 2012, 06:43 AM   #10
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Still waiting to hear from lwilliams28.
It would be nice to hear excactly what you are after, and how you have done it so far. And maybe two 18" suba is a little underrated for 300-800 people. It depends on the musicstyle and how loud you are playing (and a lot of other factors).

imix500: Off course an aux send could be used, but again - very often you have very limited numbers of sends to use. They will often be divided in pre and post sends (if you are lucky you will be able to switch between those). You will use some for stage monitor and the rest for effects. I think you are used to very large set-ups with unlimited possibilities, and I bet you also have gate and comps build into the console on every channel :-)

I still don't see why sending to subs instead of using low cut is better sonically.
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