I need help with a bicycle stereo design. Can someone tell me if this could work?
Two Behringer B210D active 10" PA speakers
One 12" active home subwoofer
run on a 1000 watt new honda generator.
I've been reading about people running pa's and folks have hesitancy using smaller Generators. But aren't these new hondas wonderful and steady and safe?
We can borrow one to test with. We want the thing to run for 9 hours. Batteries would get quite heavy...
Any advise is welcomed...
Thanks!
Tor
Two Behringer B210D active 10" PA speakers
One 12" active home subwoofer
run on a 1000 watt new honda generator.
I've been reading about people running pa's and folks have hesitancy using smaller Generators. But aren't these new hondas wonderful and steady and safe?
We can borrow one to test with. We want the thing to run for 9 hours. Batteries would get quite heavy...
Any advise is welcomed...
Thanks!
Tor
Add up all the wattage of the active devices and double it.
That should give you plenty of power for running what you need at reasonable levels.
I have seen plenty mobile DJ's run thousands of watts off of dual alternators in a van running a huge 120V inverter.
A Honda portable generator is not very different, you just need to make sure you have enough reserve wattage for headroom.
Most generators get the best fuel hourage at between 65% & 85% rated load.
Be careful with the generator specs, pay attention to the Peak Wattage and Running Wattage.
If the generator output power is noisy then you may want to look into a line conditioner to clean it up.
That should give you plenty of power for running what you need at reasonable levels.
I have seen plenty mobile DJ's run thousands of watts off of dual alternators in a van running a huge 120V inverter.
A Honda portable generator is not very different, you just need to make sure you have enough reserve wattage for headroom.
Most generators get the best fuel hourage at between 65% & 85% rated load.
Be careful with the generator specs, pay attention to the Peak Wattage and Running Wattage.
If the generator output power is noisy then you may want to look into a line conditioner to clean it up.
Be especially carefull that the output voltage as correct.
And the frequency as well.
I saw a guys vintage tube amp go up in smoke at a show once because the Voltage Was Too High !!!
I know this because I measured it my self.
The venue had every thing running off of a generator and luckily it didn't hurt my P.A. or any other equipment.
But unfortunately there was one unlucky and very unhappy guitar player as he said that he had just got the thing.
So we quickly shut it down and found some extension cords and ran off of real power from the grid and the show went on without a hitch.
Not to mention it sounded much better without the generator running in the background.
I didn't have any way to check the frequency that day, But if it is to low that can burn up a transformer as well !!!
jer
And the frequency as well.
I saw a guys vintage tube amp go up in smoke at a show once because the Voltage Was Too High !!!
I know this because I measured it my self.
The venue had every thing running off of a generator and luckily it didn't hurt my P.A. or any other equipment.
But unfortunately there was one unlucky and very unhappy guitar player as he said that he had just got the thing.
So we quickly shut it down and found some extension cords and ran off of real power from the grid and the show went on without a hitch.
Not to mention it sounded much better without the generator running in the background.
I didn't have any way to check the frequency that day, But if it is to low that can burn up a transformer as well !!!
jer
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The behringer says 200 watts. Do you think its really that much? I am somewhat confused about how an amp is rated. Perhaps if I had the 200x2 of the behringers and another 200 watt sub, I'd be fine with a 1000 watt generator.
Einric, What does a line conditioner look like, is it the same as a ground loop isolator? Do you know of a good one?
Thanks everyone. I'm feeling more confident that this will work.
Einric, What does a line conditioner look like, is it the same as a ground loop isolator? Do you know of a good one?
Thanks everyone. I'm feeling more confident that this will work.
Am I wrong to think that I can get some bass from 200 watts? Maybe I should dedicate more to the sub.
What would others do for the lightest, most efficient sub? I've seen PA subs that are molded ABS. Does anyone make a 300 watt lightweight sub that is good? I think of home subs because craigslist is always filled with them.
t
What would others do for the lightest, most efficient sub? I've seen PA subs that are molded ABS. Does anyone make a 300 watt lightweight sub that is good? I think of home subs because craigslist is always filled with them.
t
I checked my genny when I first started using it, with a DMM that has the clamp for measuring amperage(A/C). Had to make a special 1 foot cord with male and female ends and unjacketed cable so the three conductors could be measured individually. Its good to check the amp draw off of line power just to be sure your genny is going to supply enough current. Definitely check the frequency ,and voltage sag while under full load.
I registered just so I could comment on this post. Ive always been curious as why people always recommend so large generators to people who are on a budget. Granted that if budget and size was of no concern and you had a paying audience or tube amplifiers or other sensitive expensive equipment running your rules of thumb would make a lot of sense.
Contrary to common knowledge I have been running a sound system consisting of 2 single 18" bass bins and 12 inch tops + monitoring and other equipment of a single 1000 W inverter generator. There has been moments when dubstep has pushed this generator to its limits but those moments have been rare. A sound system almost never draws more than its rated power with common music material even though rated power usually means output power and not input power. I would say that the sound system more often than not draws less power from the generator than the rated output power from practical experience.
So id say go for it! Instead of buying an expensive power conditioner, buy a simple energy meter such as this: http://www.clasohlson.com/uk/Plug-In-Energy-Meter/Pr182027000 and use that to check voltage and power consumption. When you set up the sound system start with low volume and work your way up using the energy meters power indication as a reference. Stop raising the volume if the power consumption goes anywhere near 50% -70% of your generators rated power.
Contrary to common knowledge I have been running a sound system consisting of 2 single 18" bass bins and 12 inch tops + monitoring and other equipment of a single 1000 W inverter generator. There has been moments when dubstep has pushed this generator to its limits but those moments have been rare. A sound system almost never draws more than its rated power with common music material even though rated power usually means output power and not input power. I would say that the sound system more often than not draws less power from the generator than the rated output power from practical experience.
So id say go for it! Instead of buying an expensive power conditioner, buy a simple energy meter such as this: http://www.clasohlson.com/uk/Plug-In-Energy-Meter/Pr182027000 and use that to check voltage and power consumption. When you set up the sound system start with low volume and work your way up using the energy meters power indication as a reference. Stop raising the volume if the power consumption goes anywhere near 50% -70% of your generators rated power.
I discovered I had written a reply to this thread, and despite the fact it's probably too late for the person who was enquiring will still post it, in case anyone else might be interessed.
Low frequencies + small size = low efficiency.
Modern solution:- power's dirt cheap, throw more watts at it. Unfortunately, your generator system doesn't allow for this solution.
So, thinking old fashioned I see two classes of answer. The first, which I will call the Martin technique, is not to go for the ultra lows at all. Ignore the 35 Hz information completely, roll off everything below 60, (with an hpf before the power amp, so it's not wasting precious generator power heating up the coil of an unresponsive driver) and the equation shifts drastically. You can't use a hi-fi subwoofer for this, as they're designed for a flattish frequency response way down, not efficiency a bit higher, so this means building a cabinet.
The other solution bending (not breaking) the laws of physics is to make the cabinet 'look' bigger. Corner horns use the walls of a room to extend the cabinet, and its low frequency response; not necessarily in a linear fashion, but we're not hunting for the finest hifi response, anyway. I worked for a while with some very short bass horns which were delivered with some sheets of wood that clamped onto the front (flight case clips; got loose and rattly quite fast) enlarging the mouth to one and a half square metres; extra things to lose, and some additional set up time, but it does work, and without much transport or weight increase. The cabinets I'm talking about had 15" drivers, so wouldn't be optimum for your purposes anyway, even if I could remember the manufacturer (which I can't), but the principle holds.
Inflatable woofers? I never saw this used in practice, but if you load your driver into a large, spherical balloon, you get a near perfect omnidirectional wave from the entire surface. I don't know about efficiencies; the people I knew who were experimenting with it were more interested in coverage, but it seems possible that the increased surface area would work (thinking about the fact that we didn't get huge quantities of low frequencies from Rick's inflatable dinosaurs with their vacuum-cleaner air pumps, perhaps not).
Neutral detached? Yes, floating power, or centre tapped power is standard on construction sites, where safety committees have decided it reduces the risk of lethal voltages. We used to have an isolation transformer giving 55 – 0 – 55 volts. And there are a lot more of those little generators running power tools and lights than sound systems. Floating is actually a good deal easier to handle than centre tapped, especially if you're hiring the gear rather than buying outright.
Low frequencies + small size = low efficiency.
Modern solution:- power's dirt cheap, throw more watts at it. Unfortunately, your generator system doesn't allow for this solution.
So, thinking old fashioned I see two classes of answer. The first, which I will call the Martin technique, is not to go for the ultra lows at all. Ignore the 35 Hz information completely, roll off everything below 60, (with an hpf before the power amp, so it's not wasting precious generator power heating up the coil of an unresponsive driver) and the equation shifts drastically. You can't use a hi-fi subwoofer for this, as they're designed for a flattish frequency response way down, not efficiency a bit higher, so this means building a cabinet.
The other solution bending (not breaking) the laws of physics is to make the cabinet 'look' bigger. Corner horns use the walls of a room to extend the cabinet, and its low frequency response; not necessarily in a linear fashion, but we're not hunting for the finest hifi response, anyway. I worked for a while with some very short bass horns which were delivered with some sheets of wood that clamped onto the front (flight case clips; got loose and rattly quite fast) enlarging the mouth to one and a half square metres; extra things to lose, and some additional set up time, but it does work, and without much transport or weight increase. The cabinets I'm talking about had 15" drivers, so wouldn't be optimum for your purposes anyway, even if I could remember the manufacturer (which I can't), but the principle holds.
Inflatable woofers? I never saw this used in practice, but if you load your driver into a large, spherical balloon, you get a near perfect omnidirectional wave from the entire surface. I don't know about efficiencies; the people I knew who were experimenting with it were more interested in coverage, but it seems possible that the increased surface area would work (thinking about the fact that we didn't get huge quantities of low frequencies from Rick's inflatable dinosaurs with their vacuum-cleaner air pumps, perhaps not).
Neutral detached? Yes, floating power, or centre tapped power is standard on construction sites, where safety committees have decided it reduces the risk of lethal voltages. We used to have an isolation transformer giving 55 – 0 – 55 volts. And there are a lot more of those little generators running power tools and lights than sound systems. Floating is actually a good deal easier to handle than centre tapped, especially if you're hiring the gear rather than buying outright.
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