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Old 14th November 2011, 01:18 PM   #1
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Talking Mid Horn

Hello there friends.

I am wondering if anyone could help me sort out my PA system. Check my previous threads for details.

I am basically using some TOA 3000 cabinets with some H&H 12" cones i have had lying around.
I am yet to pink noise analyse them in the horns, but have simmed the horns in hornresp (i think ive done it correctly) and i get a FR from about 180hz (18" tapped horns do the low end) to 1000hz. Now the horn drops off in responce too low for a tweeter/horn im sure they usually cross at about 3-4k.

Basically im trying to fill the void between the responce of the horn and the high end.
Atm i have a H&H HF200 ring radiator for testing as it came out of the old boxes i had. The other was a Fane HF250, but the diaphram is shot. I dont really know where to start, i was thinking of using some sort of 800hz horn up until say 4k then a Ring radiator for the top end. Of course i could just use a copression driver with a horn to fill the top end but i feel that using a separate bullet will achieve clearer highs.

I would also like to know whether i could use a 5" or so driver horn loaded to cover the required range, as i dont often see smaller drivers used in PA cabinets.

Any suggestion on the best way to fill 800hz and above so that i can keep the mid horn loaded and not try and push it above its cutoff. The cabinets have a lot of space so any ideas welcome.

Thanks

Last edited by sketchyphish; 14th November 2011 at 01:21 PM. Reason: Added Detail
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Old 14th November 2011, 01:54 PM   #2
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The Peavey SP2-22xt PA speaker crosses over the 22xt horn at 1200 hz at 12db/oct. The top end of this speaker is 14khz so there is still some use for your "ring radiator" if your ears go that high (my ears are 3 db down at 14k and gone at 17k according to the factory medical test) The 2" diameter 22xt drivers are still for sale. You can see from the spec download the horn is rectangular with rectangular angle, so there is still some room for diy with plastic sheet and glue or something. I live near the factory so they are the dominent bar band speaker here, caught mine assembled in a "leaving the road" sale. Freight on a a pair of 97 lb SP2-XT would drive the cost up where you are.
I find at 1.5 V peak input, my usual listening level, these are the lowest distortion speaker I have owned or heard. Yes, if you push them up to bar levels, they distort more. See the distortion chart on the 2004 spec SP2 which plots 2nd and 3rd harmonic levels at 1 watt. I have never heard a "high end" speaker like some people talk about, probably the nearest ones are 300 miles away in Chicago or Detroit.
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Last edited by indianajo; 14th November 2011 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 15th November 2011, 02:49 AM   #3
Tajzmaj is offline Tajzmaj  Slovenia
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Compression drivers like 1,4 or 2'' will work happily from some 1,3KHz ....but check this out....it is probably my favorite sound system...
Regards, Taj
ftp://ftp.turbosound.com/datasheets/...cts/tfs780.pdf
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Old 15th November 2011, 12:30 PM   #4
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Maybe i wasnt being clear enough, the high end whatever that may be eventually has to cross over the mid horn at about 800-1000hz as this is where the physical dimensions of the horn and speaker drop off at the high end. There is no point having a compression driver horn combo
that can only handle 1200hz cross over if i need to cross much lower. Im still thinking that using a compression/horn combo for the high-mid and then a bullet for the top end maybe 8k and above......hmm more suggestions and help welcome......

Last edited by sketchyphish; 15th November 2011 at 12:35 PM.
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Old 15th November 2011, 01:24 PM   #5
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The SA 8535 could be what you need.

Stage Accompany
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Old 17th November 2011, 06:54 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sketchyphish View Post
Hello there friends.

I am wondering if anyone could help me sort out my PA system. Check my previous threads for details.

I am basically using some TOA 3000 cabinets with some H&H 12" cones i have had lying around.
I am yet to pink noise analyse them in the horns, but have simmed the horns in hornresp (i think ive done it correctly) and i get a FR from about 180hz (18" tapped horns do the low end) to 1000hz. Now the horn drops off in responce too low for a tweeter/horn im sure they usually cross at about 3-4k.

Basically im trying to fill the void between the responce of the horn and the high end.
Atm i have a H&H HF200 ring radiator for testing as it came out of the old boxes i had. The other was a Fane HF250, but the diaphram is shot. I dont really know where to start, i was thinking of using some sort of 800hz horn up until say 4k then a Ring radiator for the top end. Of course i could just use a copression driver with a horn to fill the top end but i feel that using a separate bullet will achieve clearer highs.

I would also like to know whether i could use a 5" or so driver horn loaded to cover the required range, as i dont often see smaller drivers used in PA cabinets.

Any suggestion on the best way to fill 800hz and above so that i can keep the mid horn loaded and not try and push it above its cutoff. The cabinets have a lot of space so any ideas welcome.

Thanks
Getting a 5" driver to play nice from 800-4K is a stretch, and requires some very fancy phase plugs, and very good drivers, and a lot of compensating EQ.
800-4K is easy to cover with cheap compression drivers and horns.

Bullets are usually extremely narrow dispersion up high, requiring multiple units to get adequate dispersion for most venues.
The short length compared to the mid horn makes phase alignment only possible over a narrow dispersion range, and the circular pattern causes comb filtering when multiple units are used, though a "barber pole" twisted vertical stack is not terrible.

I'd prefer a good constant directivity horn/driver that may crap out at 14K to a 20K 10 degree bullet beam any day.
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Old 18th November 2011, 07:40 AM   #7
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cool ok then looks like i will be going for a 800 hz horn...... is 800hz too low maybe 1000hz all the way to 14k is a lot of range to cover by one speaker.
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Old 18th November 2011, 05:26 PM   #8
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Don't know why you have to go so low as 1000 hz on the mid range horn. Peavey has a 15" woofer covering to 1200 hz in the 1998 SP2-XT and the same woofer goes to 1800 hz in the SP2 (2004). Try your 12" woofer up to these frequencies and see what it will do. SP2 is a 2 way speaker either way, 15" woofer + 2" horn, 56 hz -14k +- 3 db. The SP2 in the store might have sounded slightly better, but the audition CD was not ideal so I don't really know.
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Old 18th November 2011, 07:59 PM   #9
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its not realy that the speaker wont go that low more that the fact that ive simmed the speaker in the horn it is coupled to and it starts to cut off at about 800hz so i want something to cover this keeping the system nicely crossed over and covering all the frequencies equally.
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Old 18th November 2011, 09:03 PM   #10
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Your 12" woofer is in a horn? That is a bit odd! I heard a pair of very expensive klipsh horns in 1971 driven by macintosh amps. I didn't like it very much. That retailer was soon out of business. Later discussion of the klipsch horn has said the bass was not time aligned. I thought you wanted a mid-horn to go with your 12" woofer in a sealed box or in a bass reflex box. I guess I was wrong. Carrying around that much horn to PA gigs must be a real aerobic exercise. The Klipsch horns were about the size of washing machines laid on their back.
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Last edited by indianajo; 18th November 2011 at 09:12 PM.
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