I'm interested in getting a professional type of stereo 2 way crossover for my home system. I've read the specs on dbx and Rane brands, but what others are good? The dbx and Rane units look extremely good to me. Since I'm using high sensitivity speakers, I think that having a S/N of over 100dB and very low THD is a requirement. The dbx crossovers seem to be less expensive than Rane. What's your favorite crossover? I've only been considering analog crossovers so far, though digital may be a good or even better choice, I don't know. Educate me, please.
The 223s dbx crossover looks more than adequate for my needs:
dbx 223s Stereo 2-Way / Mono 3-Way Crossover 246-101
and at only $160 it seems like a great deal. Am I missing something? (the dbx 223xs looks fine to me also)
I've also looked at the Rane AC 22S, but at $375 I don't see where it's so much better than the dbx:
Rane Corporation Rane AC 22S Active Crossover Crossovers at Markertek.com
AC 22S Active Crossover
The Rane has S/N of 92 vs. the dbx at 106dB. Distortion is lower on the dbx also.
http://www.rane.com/pdf/ac22sdat.pdf
My DAC has XLR outputs so this new system is going to be all balanced at line level.
What am I missing here? Is the features of the Rane or what?
dbx 223s Stereo 2-Way / Mono 3-Way Crossover 246-101
and at only $160 it seems like a great deal. Am I missing something? (the dbx 223xs looks fine to me also)
I've also looked at the Rane AC 22S, but at $375 I don't see where it's so much better than the dbx:
Rane Corporation Rane AC 22S Active Crossover Crossovers at Markertek.com
AC 22S Active Crossover
The Rane has S/N of 92 vs. the dbx at 106dB. Distortion is lower on the dbx also.
http://www.rane.com/pdf/ac22sdat.pdf
My DAC has XLR outputs so this new system is going to be all balanced at line level.
What am I missing here? Is the features of the Rane or what?
Last edited:
"Best" is probably a crossover that uses plug-in modules to set the frequency. Use an adjustable one to find the right frequency and order.
Variable frequency means compromises. Multi-section pots don't track perfectly (unless there are laser-trimmed examples that do). IIRC, Rane gets around that by using VCAs (voltage controlled amplifiers) to vary the gain (and therefore frequency) of State Variable Filters, but VCAs have much higher distortion than regular op-amps. Higher being relative; they're not fuzzboxes, but there are fewer zeroes after the decimal in the THD spec.
Variable frequency means compromises. Multi-section pots don't track perfectly (unless there are laser-trimmed examples that do). IIRC, Rane gets around that by using VCAs (voltage controlled amplifiers) to vary the gain (and therefore frequency) of State Variable Filters, but VCAs have much higher distortion than regular op-amps. Higher being relative; they're not fuzzboxes, but there are fewer zeroes after the decimal in the THD spec.
Borbely all discrete jfet crossover with his jfet shunt regulators built with Vishay bulk foil resistors, Blackgate caps, polystyrene filters, stepped TKD attenuators. But you have to build it and that's what Diyaudio is for - not the easy way out with commercially built mid fi, but care and attention in building something very, very good.
Last edited:
Yeah, I used to build electronics, but not anymore. I just build loudspeakers now.
Hello from NC in the USA - you might also want to check out Marchand Electronics:
electronic crossover, PLLXO, passive crossover, active crossover, custom amplifier
I use the 24 dB/octave XM9 with 140 Hz modules, neatly avoiding the 60 Hz resonance of my satellites. The signal-to-noise is spec'd for several volts input, so the output of my passive controller at half a volt or so was down closer to the noise, but at the time a decade or so ago Phil Marchand himself returned my call and told me to change a couple resistors for some early-stage boost for better S-to-N. It has Q adjustments so you can add boost or droop in the crossover range. I plan on getting another board and set of modules for a sub-sub-woofer, if I can get adequate WAF.
Just a quality, musical piece of gear.
electronic crossover, PLLXO, passive crossover, active crossover, custom amplifier
I use the 24 dB/octave XM9 with 140 Hz modules, neatly avoiding the 60 Hz resonance of my satellites. The signal-to-noise is spec'd for several volts input, so the output of my passive controller at half a volt or so was down closer to the noise, but at the time a decade or so ago Phil Marchand himself returned my call and told me to change a couple resistors for some early-stage boost for better S-to-N. It has Q adjustments so you can add boost or droop in the crossover range. I plan on getting another board and set of modules for a sub-sub-woofer, if I can get adequate WAF.
Just a quality, musical piece of gear.
I use RANE but IMHO it's overpriced. Check out Peavey and Behringer for 1/2 the money. I was looking and listening at Best Buy of all places, and came away impressed with their semi-pro consumer stuff. After all, it isn't magic, they screw up the balanced input and balanced output stages more often than the filters.
Truth is they're generally pretty clean and I really like to twiddle the knobs.
Truth is they're generally pretty clean and I really like to twiddle the knobs.
Last edited:
I owned the DBX 234 first and loved it.
Moved on to the Rane AC23, substantial improvement in floor noise and detail in the upper frequencies.
Then I was convinced to try the Behringer DCX2496. The Rane just sits under my bed now just in case the Behringer dies and I have to wait for another.
I would suggest that the Behringer rules it's price range. It is infinitely adjustable, in frequency, slope, distance.... Even has a para. eq. built in.
I'm sure that there are better quality crossovers out there, but not for anything close to as cheap.
Moved on to the Rane AC23, substantial improvement in floor noise and detail in the upper frequencies.
Then I was convinced to try the Behringer DCX2496. The Rane just sits under my bed now just in case the Behringer dies and I have to wait for another.
I would suggest that the Behringer rules it's price range. It is infinitely adjustable, in frequency, slope, distance.... Even has a para. eq. built in.
I'm sure that there are better quality crossovers out there, but not for anything close to as cheap.
I think if you put the Rane and some of the others side by side, you will see they are well made and sturdy - good for on the road.
I agree with cycle, check out the Peavey and Behringer. Behringer gets a lot of negative talk, but the stuff is very inexpensive and works pretty well. MY gripe with them is the stuff is also light weight. I operate in pro audio. But yours is a home system, you won;t be transporting the gear in racks tossed in the back of a semi truck and riding across the country. SO in my view the disadvantages of less sturdy gear fade away when used in the home.
Peavey makes solid stuff that works well on the road. Check out the spec sheets and if they make your performance standard, consider them.
There are other brands of very serious pro models, but you mention money as a concern, so the things that appeal to the $3000 mic preamp crowd probably are not on your menu.
If your home system intends to be a set it and forget it system, then I don;t see analog versus digital as very important. Some of the digital systems can offer memory and changing settings. That may be of little value to you, on the other hand, I know people who use different cartridge/stylus for classical music and for pop. SO it is possible you might value being able to "recall" different setips for different listening situations. Indoor versus patio speakers for example. And on digital, the frequencies will probably be right on, versus a small analog knob with numbers around it.
I agree with cycle, check out the Peavey and Behringer. Behringer gets a lot of negative talk, but the stuff is very inexpensive and works pretty well. MY gripe with them is the stuff is also light weight. I operate in pro audio. But yours is a home system, you won;t be transporting the gear in racks tossed in the back of a semi truck and riding across the country. SO in my view the disadvantages of less sturdy gear fade away when used in the home.
Peavey makes solid stuff that works well on the road. Check out the spec sheets and if they make your performance standard, consider them.
There are other brands of very serious pro models, but you mention money as a concern, so the things that appeal to the $3000 mic preamp crowd probably are not on your menu.
If your home system intends to be a set it and forget it system, then I don;t see analog versus digital as very important. Some of the digital systems can offer memory and changing settings. That may be of little value to you, on the other hand, I know people who use different cartridge/stylus for classical music and for pop. SO it is possible you might value being able to "recall" different setips for different listening situations. Indoor versus patio speakers for example. And on digital, the frequencies will probably be right on, versus a small analog knob with numbers around it.
I'm pretty sure my home system here is going to be a "set it and forget it" type. There may be a little bit of experimenting, but not much. I already decided the crossover frequency is going to be around 500 Hz. Some of the other features these units have may be useful for me, like delay for example. Once I've figured out what works best, I don't intend to change it unless something unforeseen happens.
I've looked at the Marchland products and I appreciate the man is very talented and dedicated but I'm not into DIY on this item and his finished stuff is high quality with a corresponding price.
I'm not sure how these typical professional type crossovers are used in the field. Do professionals change the settings fairly often, depending on the venue or what ever? I'm still learning here. Thanks everyone for their input so far.
It's extremely rare to change the xover points for a system venue to venue. Delay time of the elements of the system change almost every move, as well as eq. How much depends on the venue. Some manufactures like Meyer and L' acoustics even lock parameters like box tuning, driver alignment and so the system as a whole can be tweaked, but not individual pass bands.
Yeah, that's an option as well. Does the MiniDSP have as good specs as something like a dbx? (greater than 100dB S/N, less than 0.01% THD) What kind of slopes do they offer (24 dB/octave, 18, etc)? What about delays? I need/want balanced XLR connectors for this and the MiniDSP I looked at only had RCA connectors.
Which brings me to digital vs. analog crossovers. Do the digital ones add strange "coloration" to the sound as compared to a good analog one? Are the analog ones typically worse or better in your experience than the digital, or is it just about various features like repeatability?
OK, I do see that MiniDSP has a balanced module for $145, but I'd still need a box for the XLR's. Also, I'm leery of all this D/A conversion. I have a DAC that I think is very nice:
Little Dot Amplifiers • View topic - Little Dot DAC_I Digital to Analog Converter
So, I'd like to use it. It's almost a digital preamp because it has 4 selectable digital inputs. It just needs a volume control. Anyway, converting to analog and then back again to digital in a digital crossover isn't logical to me, but I know many do it with great success. I think I've just talked myself into an analog crossover, though of course I'm open to digital ones also, just scratching my head about it.
Little Dot Amplifiers • View topic - Little Dot DAC_I Digital to Analog Converter
So, I'd like to use it. It's almost a digital preamp because it has 4 selectable digital inputs. It just needs a volume control. Anyway, converting to analog and then back again to digital in a digital crossover isn't logical to me, but I know many do it with great success. I think I've just talked myself into an analog crossover, though of course I'm open to digital ones also, just scratching my head about it.
I found the Behringer digital introduced less noise and coloration that a similarily price analog crossover and more than likely the DAC is close to as good as a little dot.
As far as picking a crossover frequency and just sticking with it, why? At least start with the Behringer, tweak in real time, find the ideal settings, then if you want to upgrade you won't be taking risks on buying cards that cost more than you would lose by buying a brand new DCX2496 and then selling it for a loss.
As far as picking a crossover frequency and just sticking with it, why? At least start with the Behringer, tweak in real time, find the ideal settings, then if you want to upgrade you won't be taking risks on buying cards that cost more than you would lose by buying a brand new DCX2496 and then selling it for a loss.
Those are good points, thanks. I see that this Behringer also can accept digital signals directly via one of the XLR connectors. My CD transport (also the Little Dot) has S/PDIF output via an RCA or BNC connector. How do I convert this to the AES/EBU signal that the Behringer requires? I'm sorry I'm not more familiar with digital standards.
The features of the Behringer are mind boggling to me.
What would I recommend? Well, I do own the DCX2496, but I don't use it at home. Until I went over to the dark side and bought an AV receiver, I used a DIY 4th order crossover. There's the Marchand boards. electronic crossover, PLLXO, passive crossover, active crossover, custom amplifier Maybe there's a kit from Elektor. Someone must sell a generic/cookbook active crossover board. But it wouldn't be hard to build on prototype boards, like those ones that Radio Shack sold that used the same layout as a solderless breadboard.
Maybe buy a used variable (semi)pro crossover and convert it to fixed frequency (and upgrade power supply, op-amps, caps).
Maybe buy a used variable (semi)pro crossover and convert it to fixed frequency (and upgrade power supply, op-amps, caps).
My favorite is BSS. I have 2 Bss FDS366 for my pro use and one 344 for aux dj setup........
But I'm afraid that BSS units are very expensive..
I think that digital active crossover is one and only right approach if you want to have full control over your system.....but just my opinion....
So maybe this can help you.....I never tried those products but looks very promising.....
Regards, Taj
Home | miniDSP
But I'm afraid that BSS units are very expensive..
I think that digital active crossover is one and only right approach if you want to have full control over your system.....but just my opinion....
So maybe this can help you.....I never tried those products but looks very promising.....
Regards, Taj
Home | miniDSP
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.