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Old 11th November 2011, 01:31 PM   #31
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirkwright View Post
It is true that many of them do not model well in the simulation software I use. .
usually what happens with low Qts

and yes, in pro conditions a big woofer really needs such low Qts to maintain control when pushed hard
so yes, it is going more and more in that direction
especially the new neo magnet designs makes it 'easier' to do

and pro amp power is getting bigger and cheaper every day
so that kind pushes it even further in that direction

this also means that Fs ressonance goes up on new designs
woofers that had 30Hz Fs last year, are made with 40Hz next year

is not really to our advantage
not good
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Old 12th November 2011, 06:17 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinitus View Post
usually what happens with low Qts

and yes, in pro conditions a big woofer really needs such low Qts to maintain control when pushed hard
so yes, it is going more and more in that direction
especially the new neo magnet designs makes it 'easier' to do

and pro amp power is getting bigger and cheaper every day
so that kind pushes it even further in that direction

this also means that Fs ressonance goes up on new designs
woofers that had 30Hz Fs last year, are made with 40Hz next year

is not really to our advantage
not good
Well, those are pretty big generalizations you are making about an entire industry. As with such broad ideas, there are always exceptions. I have found exceptional drivers in the pro area that are extremely useful for home hifi.
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Old 12th November 2011, 11:10 PM   #33
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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In fact I haven't designed with anything else, and I'm quite thrilled with the results.. My friends will grudgingly admit the results of my efforts at least sound OK..
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Old 13th November 2011, 12:10 AM   #34
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Originally Posted by dirkwright View Post
. I have found exceptional drivers in the pro area that are extremely useful for home hifi.
hope to find one myself, when I can afford it
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Old 18th November 2011, 03:52 AM   #35
18Hurts is offline 18Hurts  United States
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Nothing wrong with using PA woofers in hifi--if you do it right

I have two Cerwin Vega PA woofers and checked their Fs, it was around 32Hz when I tested them in the box loaded isobarik (face to face). Tuned the 18" passive radiator to 21Hz and drive it with a Carver M1.5t. I've been using it for a year, it shakes the house, flexes the picture window and rattles the doors. Musician friends have commented how clean it sounds...the isobarik loading knocks the efficiency down 3dB over a single woofer but I had efficiency to spare--but not 7 cubic feet!

Cerwin Vega home speakers are very loud and very large beasts....they mimic pro sound speakers in the first place... as long as the crossover matches the speakers correctly and the efficiency is the same--all is well.

Those guys that use 2 watt tube amps generally use PA speakers and horns to get the efficiency high enough to get the dynamics required. All depends on your wants, needs and if you like the end result.

My dream speakers are Danley Sound Labs synergy horns--they are PA speakers but sound amazing... Leave no stone unturned!
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Old 18th November 2011, 05:07 AM   #36
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I use a GR Research design that uses pro Co-ax drivers in an OB.....best I've had in my system, and I'm using a small 15 watt tube amp......leaving no stone unturned.....
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Last edited by PDRCanada; 18th November 2011 at 05:11 AM.
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Old 23rd December 2011, 11:23 PM   #37
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Personally I have never heard a pa speaker used as home audio speakers sound anywhere close to GOOD. Pro pa drivers were designed to be tough and go loud. High quality hi fi speakers ( I'm not talking about the typical cheap hi fi speaker )
So many people confuse loud with sounding good. That is why over the last few years mastering engineers have been fighting a loudness war when mastering tracks because the average person percieves loud as sounding better. But it DOES NOT!!
I would eat my words if someone could let me listen to a speaker made from pa components that is cabable of any imaging. Its just not gonna happen. I have been listening to good home audio speakers and PA speakers for the last 40 years and I have yet to hear a pa speaker sound hi fi. Its like trying to get a 5 ton dumptruck to ride like a caddy. Sure you can take the dumptruck to the store to get grocerys but its still gona ride like a dumptruck becouse it was designed to haul not to ride nice.
I would not try to use hi fi drivers for a pa either.
Do you think they use PA speakers to mix in studios. Of course not. And that is for a good reason.
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Old 23rd December 2011, 11:48 PM   #38
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Hey tunemaker,

You should try some of Meyer's small bi-amped pa gear. They transition very well from the Theater to the home. UPJ-1P, UPQ-1P, and of course the X-10
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Old 24th December 2011, 09:56 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by tunemaker View Post
So many people confuse loud with sounding good. But it DOES NOT!!
No one's confused; it's a proven fact that louder sounds better. If you disagree, you may have tinnitus. Or speakers that distort at high SPLs, which is likely the case if you listen only to hifi speakers.

I do agree that PA systems are generally dreadful when fed recorded music, as they sacrifice everything else for high SPLs and portability, but the bass drivers themselves are just speakers and if they have the specs you need I seriously doubt you could identify a Pro Audio driver in a well-designed hifi system.

I was always amused that one of the best selling speakers for so long was the JBL L-100. It didn't have real bass and the frequency response looked like a mountain range, but because it could play so loud, at normal levels it was exceptionally clean. It also had more dynamic range than anything of its size. Those features made it very easy to sell when compared to the boomboxes that came from Boston, but unfortunately that knowledge seems lost to history. (I'm not going to tell you how long ago this was, but I'll admit I did have a customer that bought only one because he still listened in mono!)

BTW, welcome to the forum!
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Old 24th December 2011, 07:31 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by revboden View Post
Hey tunemaker,

You should try some of Meyer's small bi-amped pa gear. They transition very well from the Theater to the home. UPJ-1P, UPQ-1P, and of course the X-10
Or a Synergy horn, or any number of well-designed PA speakers.
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