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Old 20th September 2010, 04:25 AM   #11
tb46 is offline tb46  United States
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Default HOG Scoop

Hi again,

As close as I can simulate: the HOG Scoop has a net volume of 511 liter, is externally about 35.5"Dx25"Wx38.8"H, and the SPL response in Hornresp simulation (using the PD.1850, factory T/S) is attached:

Regards,
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File Type: jpg Hog_PD1850_tb46.jpg (35.9 KB, 492 views)
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Last edited by tb46; 20th September 2010 at 04:27 AM.
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Old 20th September 2010, 05:27 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tb46 View Post
Hi again,

As close as I can simulate: the HOG Scoop has a net volume of 511 liter, is externally about 35.5"Dx25"Wx38.8"H, and the SPL response in Hornresp simulation (using the PD.1850, factory T/S) is attached:

Regards,
For this application, this driver is one of my choices as well.
In a larger cabinet the PD 2150 will give you more 'punch' if you want it.

For enclosure design, see Rog Mogale's contributions at:
1850 and 186 horns - Speakerplans.com Forums - Page 1

Regards,
WHG

Last edited by whgeiger; 20th September 2010 at 05:28 AM. Reason: Typo
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Old 20th September 2010, 08:17 AM   #13
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Hi Bill,

Welcome back - it's nice to see you posting on the forums again.

Kind regards,

David
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Old 20th September 2010, 12:12 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tb46 View Post
Hi again,

As close as I can simulate: the HOG Scoop has a net volume of 511 liter, is externally about 35.5"Dx25"Wx38.8"H, and the SPL response in Hornresp simulation (using the PD.1850, factory T/S) is attached:

Regards,
could you post up the hr inputs please
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Old 20th September 2010, 12:28 PM   #15
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Default Again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by David McBean View Post
Hi Bill,

Welcome back - it's nice to see you posting on the forums again.

Kind regards,

David
Hi David,
The last few years have been turbulent and during that period all my hobbies went on hold.
Lost my wife to cancer in 2005 and have recently remarried (2008).
I got lucky and found a second sweetheart.
While my schedule is still busy, I have decided to renew my interest in subjects acoustic.
I notice you are still actively supporting your horn simulation program.
What a pleasant surprise that is.
Regards,
Bill
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Old 20th September 2010, 12:49 PM   #16
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Default Notches

QUOTE=tb46;2308603]Hi again,

As close as I can simulate: the HOG Scoop has a net volume of 511 liter, is externally about 35.5"Dx25"Wx38.8"H, and the SPL response in Hornresp simulation (using the PD.1850, factory T/S) is attached:

Regards,[/QUOTE]

This is probably a closer approximation.
Regards,
WHG
HOGScoopdownscaled-12LW1400-SPL.jpg

Last edited by whgeiger; 20th September 2010 at 12:52 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old 20th September 2010, 03:09 PM   #17
jbell is offline jbell  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CuttaBoi View Post
Plans can be found here
Yep correct mate, designed by staiper, don't quite get you on the spl responce, care to elaborate a little mate?
Plans can be found at, Hog Scoop, theres also alot of build threads / info on speakerplans.com forum..
I've not actually seen any HR plots for it, but does have a huge amount of respect on Speakerplans - Was told that standing in front of (one or may have been a few) was like a full body massage! lol
The reason I'm leaning towards them is I can get hold of second hand Fane 18xb's for around 90, which would make them quite a cheap build.
If you come up with a better alternative, please do share

I'll hopefully not show my ignorance on rear loaded scoops here.... However, most scoops I've heard have this weird 'phase' thing going on, where the front and back waves of the driver meet and interact with each other in the listening space. In my mind.... a tapped horn, where the driver is inside the horn path allows that interaction to happen within the horn. What exits the horn has nulled/summed/interacted in whatever manner -- and its output is consistent within itself once leaving the cabinet. It's this interaction that must give a TH its directionality and other properties. It's also what prevents 'horn extensions' 'v-plates' etc from working like they do for front loaded horns.

The hog is an interesting design, because it's almost tapped horn and almost scoop. (at least it is visually)

I'm with oliver on this one though -- With huge respect to staiper, I believe in the same space as a scoop, a well designed TH can equal or beat a scoop for output, and do it with (in my mind) a more pleasing, less 'phasey' output. (as evidenced by danley's commercial designs) This is speaking in generalities only, as scoop/bandpass/tapped horn is a slippery slope, and determining exactly where you are on that slope is an iffy proposition at best sometimes.
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Old 20th September 2010, 05:14 PM   #18
tb46 is offline tb46  United States
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Default Posts #10/11/14

Hi CuttaBoi,

I hope that hellonwheels doesn't mind all the HOG Scoop discussion.

To get some, hopefully not completely wrong, data I overlayed the HOG Scoop plan (in ACAD), and scaled it until the height and depth measurements fit. I then made some assumptions as to where I wanted to place S2/3/4 to arrive at a Hornresp Input, what the volume of the troat chamber is, how much volume the driver displaces in the throat chamber,.... Working backwards from a drawing like this, there are actually a few options, and I didn't want to take more time than the Sunday night football game. I got the data for the PD.1850 from the manufacturers website, and used Hornresp to compare how close this data is to calculated values. The result is the SPL response in Post #11, better than the responses posted in Post #10, but I think it can be improved. At similar size jbell's stadium tapped horn is clearly better, and its simulation can be marginally improved too.

This gave me a little extra time to think about the general classification of the HOG Scoop, and my conclusion is still that it is a tapped horn, and not a scoop. A great thread to read up on is screamerusa's thread that resulted in the fury box. The tools for designing tapped horns have been getting better and better, especially because of David McBean's continuing effort. It stands to reason, that at least the box simulations should be getting better too.

Regards,
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Old 20th September 2010, 07:55 PM   #19
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I have no problem with expanding the scope of discussion, esp. when DMcB, WHG, et al are involved. In 270 liters its hard to beat a direct radiator design. With two 8" vents the max air is a leisurely 15m/s. No port compression there...
125db spl@40Hz 130@80...

From what I can see is 2 of the Martinsson boxes will exceed it in only 320l and more than 2x the driver cost... tb46 how come you can't get the same thing with the 3015lf in 160l?? it actually has a bit more xmax. Lumpy is ok if it has the extension.

Of course its not possible for me to move the 150 lb 270l 2x18" vented. I would like to see the 3015lf in a very well braced, extremely light yet stiff enclosure around the size of the martinsson horn. That would be the pound for pound performance winner, also in a small package, yet hitting 125@40 and going up from there.

One thing that I think that I've learned is that the max SPL numbers on the Danley site are calculated, not measured.
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Old 20th September 2010, 10:55 PM   #20
soho54 is offline soho54  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellonwheels View Post
One thing that I think that I've learned is that the max SPL numbers on the Danley site are calculated, not measured.
They are calculated, but you can get to exactly 3dB from them, like their sensitivity numbers when modeling pretty easily.
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