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Old 13th August 2010, 09:55 PM   #11
EEatKSU is offline EEatKSU  United States
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Since this is the fullrange side of the world, you might look into the BBBIB's. The pair I had was more then plenty for a large college house party...

*edit* I could have swore this was in the fullrange section....

My prior comment still stands though.

Last edited by EEatKSU; 13th August 2010 at 09:57 PM.
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Old 13th August 2010, 10:30 PM   #12
blue934 is offline blue934  Canada
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checkout this thread... Flex Your PCD Mettle: - Techtalk at Parts-Express.com

multiple versions/price ranges for a two way pro speaker.

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Old 14th August 2010, 07:45 AM   #13
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Check out PSW for some threads on 2-15 plus horn speaks, they slag the *hit out of them for muddy mids and mid lows ,plus seperate subs and mid/highs sound better due to the fact you can put the subs together(mutual coupling) and raise the M/H's up to just above peoples heads.
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Old 14th August 2010, 12:45 PM   #14
tomi is offline tomi  Wales
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If it's of any interest, here are the plans for the speakers that I built for my PA system. It's a system designed for live sound, and has given me a couple of years good service so far.

Personally I'm a little wary about the double-15 plus horn format, as often it seems that a 15" driver can't accurately cover the midrange up to the point that the horns take over.
I'd also like to second a couple of recommendations made earlier in this thread:
1) Split the system into bass and mid-hi - not only does this allow you to array the bass and elevate the highs, but if you need to transport the system you will find that a double-15 quickly becomes bulky and heavy, and those big blue jobs (which personally I think are rather hansome) must be virtually unliftable.
2) Use a Bi- (or even Tri-) amp system. This avoids a lot of hassle with bulky crossovers, undesirable phase shifts and reduced LF damping factor. Visit Rod Elliot's site (sound.westhost.com) for all the info you need about active crossover design. If anyone's is interested, I also have schematics for the crossover/2-band compressor that I use as a system controller which I can post.

My system consists of 4 12" plus horn mid-hi cabinets, plus two 15" bass bins, all reflex loaded. It is bi-amped, with one feed for the bass and another for the mid-hi, crossing at 165Hz. The mid-hi boxes include a -12/+18dB/8ve passive crossover at 3.5k. The bass bins are loaded with an Eminence Delta 15LF, while the tops have a Celestion TF1225 and an Eminence APT80 - all pretty cheap drivers. Resonance for the bass is 35Hz, and for the tops 65Hz, meaning that they can be run full-range if suitably derated. All the boxes are constructed from 12mm ply, which means that the bass need to be very well braced, and they are specifically designed to cut easily from 8x4 foot sheets.

I've attached all the information I have to hand about their construction. I'm afraid I don't have time to sort out these documents into a nicer format, but I hope they will be pretty self-explainatory as they stand.

Caveats:
Although I'm very pleased with the tops, the bass bins (built first) aren't great. They're overly big and have a needlessly low resonance - thay might sound subjectively louder tuned to 60Hz.
Since the rig is for live sound, it was designed to punch vocals through a Marshal 2x12 running at 110dB in a small room - that is, deliver plenty in the midrange. It's not that the mids are over-emphasized, but the bass isn't as chest thumping as some genres may require.
Finally, all that said, if I where building a new system, I'd look at horns all round. Worth a try?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Complete.pdf (39.5 KB, 342 views)
File Type: pdf Construction.pdf (17.4 KB, 140 views)
File Type: pdf Cutting layout.pdf (39.7 KB, 85 views)
File Type: pdf Assembly1.pdf (30.6 KB, 93 views)
File Type: pdf Assembly2.pdf (19.5 KB, 70 views)
File Type: pdf Cutting.pdf (6.6 KB, 70 views)
File Type: pdf Wiring.pdf (2.5 KB, 92 views)
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Old 16th August 2010, 06:48 AM   #15
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Thank you all for the input!

I have been looking at speakerplans before and had in mind building two tops and one or two subs from this sites plans.

Question is whether I should go with Mid Top Plans - MT 122 (with 2 x 12") or MT 102 (with 2x10").

As for sub I have my plans going for the G Sub on the same site.
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Old 16th August 2010, 07:54 AM   #16
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I'm afraid G-sub would have hard times to meet MT-122, let alone MT-102. Ideally the crossover between a double-18" and mid-tops should be around 100 Hz or lower because they don't handle upper bass (kick) that good. And you would need two MT-122 per side due to their very narrow 40 degrees dispersion (plus they need VERY beefy 2" compression driver to cross around 800...1000 Hz). MT-102 are a bit better dispersion wise (60 degrees) but won't go below 200 Hz or so and still need to be crossed around 1,5 kHz to 2" driver. I'd go for X12 (or even X10 - better midrange) plus G-sub. For 200 people horn loaded tops are overkill anyways, IMO; and you want wider dispersion, 70...90 degrees preferably. Even good single-12" tops with 18" subs would do for that. Lots of plans here, though it's in German.
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Old 16th August 2010, 09:36 AM   #17
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Only constant-directivity horns/waveguides can achieve the requisite HF dispersion, and multi-midbass is not only overkill, but also comes with its own set of issues.

12" mid/high boxes plus modest subs will get it done in imminently practical fashion....

Last edited by ZilchLab; 16th August 2010 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 16th August 2010, 05:09 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZilchLab View Post
Only constant-directivity horns/waveguides can achieve the requisite HF dispersion
Naturally. Constant directivity horns are a standard in PA application for the very same reason. Also, almost no existing midrange horn design can control directivity lower than approx. 500...1000 Hz (depending on horn size). Those that can, are impractically big.

Quote:
and multi-midbass is not only overkill, but also comes with its own set of issues.
I'd say that whenever you need more than one mid-top per side you have to compromise on sound quality. You can minimize combing, but not get totally rid of it however hard you try.
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Old 19th August 2010, 05:59 AM   #19
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Most important in my case is the sound quality.
AND also building for the future, if I want to expand the setup I don't need to scrap something that doesn't "fit"

And a couple of month ago I stumbled upon http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/ .

What I have in mind right now is to go with following setup:

2 x DR300 tops
1 x Titan 39 sub

How do You guys think of the DR300 when it comes to rooms less than 100 sqm?
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Old 19th August 2010, 06:42 AM   #20
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Or instead of the DR300 tops I also have the OmniTop 12/15 TallBoy in my mind as well..
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