My One of my mates buddies Philip Is a total audio snob. Just the mention of the phrase PA makes him look at you like a total tasteless Irchin! He has done tests on audiophile speakers in the past and written in some hi fi magazines.
Me and a group of buddies decided to put him to the test. We had a weekend drinking session arranged and we would test him before the boozing commenced. By the way I LOVE domesticated PA (the good stuff, not cheap crap) and theres lots of it too!
Out with my full party setup...
Kenwood integrated amp KA- 5020
Technics CD player SL - PS740A
Gen Exxa 10 band EQ (LORD HELP ME)
XTZ subamp1
My floorstanding towers loaded with X2 B&C 10MD26, Link dynamics X - over ATP80 Tweeter, Finished with real North American black walnut veneer.
SUB: 29" x 29" x 29" With B&C 21SW150 LF driver.
Music:
Classical: Franz Lizst, La Campanella and Hungarian Rhapsodies.
Drum and bass (dance) DJ hype, The Dogs.... (a hypersonic turntable assult!)
Chart, Owl City, Fireflies.
We sat him down blindfolded (with a damp tea towel HA HA) and begun. Immidately with La campanella he said "I'm utterly speachless It feels like im in the concert hall with him" and asked me what the speakers were,,, and kept asking every 30 seconds after. SHUT UP AND LISTEN i said.
After been blown away with lizst came the power of DJ hype. "never herd lows like that in my life... Jeeezus, Smooth and overwhelming"
Owl City, "sharp powerful vocals with incredible depth, Tight commanding bassline"
All done n dusted off came the fold and a look of terryfing embarresment as he twiddles with the bass controll on the kenwood 5020
He looked Pi**ed off to the max. Phil learnet a very valuable lesson that weekend....... High end hi fi for the most part is pure extortion and ego stroking... nothing more, nothing less.
PA wins hands down when delt with properly...
Ric!
Me and a group of buddies decided to put him to the test. We had a weekend drinking session arranged and we would test him before the boozing commenced. By the way I LOVE domesticated PA (the good stuff, not cheap crap) and theres lots of it too!
Out with my full party setup...
Kenwood integrated amp KA- 5020
Technics CD player SL - PS740A
Gen Exxa 10 band EQ (LORD HELP ME)
XTZ subamp1
My floorstanding towers loaded with X2 B&C 10MD26, Link dynamics X - over ATP80 Tweeter, Finished with real North American black walnut veneer.
SUB: 29" x 29" x 29" With B&C 21SW150 LF driver.
Music:
Classical: Franz Lizst, La Campanella and Hungarian Rhapsodies.
Drum and bass (dance) DJ hype, The Dogs.... (a hypersonic turntable assult!)
Chart, Owl City, Fireflies.
We sat him down blindfolded (with a damp tea towel HA HA) and begun. Immidately with La campanella he said "I'm utterly speachless It feels like im in the concert hall with him" and asked me what the speakers were,,, and kept asking every 30 seconds after. SHUT UP AND LISTEN i said.
After been blown away with lizst came the power of DJ hype. "never herd lows like that in my life... Jeeezus, Smooth and overwhelming"
Owl City, "sharp powerful vocals with incredible depth, Tight commanding bassline"
All done n dusted off came the fold and a look of terryfing embarresment as he twiddles with the bass controll on the kenwood 5020
He looked Pi**ed off to the max. Phil learnet a very valuable lesson that weekend....... High end hi fi for the most part is pure extortion and ego stroking... nothing more, nothing less.
PA wins hands down when delt with properly...
Ric!
The Inventer of the audio frequency EQ deserves a Knighthood. AMAZING things can be achieved with High end PA with a good EQ. I find that with regarding low end bass, an EQ on the better quality PA woofers makes a mockery of published low end response specs in a domestic situation. Eminence Omega series drivers is a shining example of this. These drivers barely flinch when an 150w 20Hz signal is shoved up them!!!
I guess many people do listen with their eyes
Yes Yorkshire folk are VERY wierd!!!!
You have great drivers, enough woofer cone area... with proper EQ it should be second to none.
More people should get their ears open to what PA drivers can do, properly EQ'ed of course!
When I think "Public Adress" Images of crappy plastic moulded cabs with 100w drivers enter my head
As I say theres so much crap out there It often ruins the image of "Pro Audio"
Great story - thanks!
If you want it to sound real, get real speakers.
Of course that's unfair, but I understand because there is so much of that out there. But it would be like you telling me "Hi-Fi speakers" and me thinking of cheap plastic satellite speakers and a powered sub.
FWIW, last year the Absolute Sound and a few other high end mags reviewed the big 2x15 Cerwin Vega speakers and really liked them - even on classical! How about that? Of course Cerwin Vega has discontinued that model....
If you want it to sound real, get real speakers.
Of course that's unfair, but I understand because there is so much of that out there. But it would be like you telling me "Hi-Fi speakers" and me thinking of cheap plastic satellite speakers and a powered sub.
FWIW, last year the Absolute Sound and a few other high end mags reviewed the big 2x15 Cerwin Vega speakers and really liked them - even on classical! How about that? Of course Cerwin Vega has discontinued that model....
Great story - thanks!
If you want it to sound real, get real speakers.
Of course that's unfair, but I understand because there is so much of that out there. But it would be like you telling me "Hi-Fi speakers" and me thinking of cheap plastic satellite speakers and a powered sub.
FWIW, last year the Absolute Sound and a few other high end mags reviewed the big 2x15 Cerwin Vega speakers and really liked them - even on classical! How about that? Of course Cerwin Vega has discontinued that model....
I'm impressed it took untill post #11 to get a negative response to PA
Well there are more crappy PA out there than good. Same can be said about "Hi-Fi" So no surprise there.
Most good speakers from both categories tend to share one property. Both are large.
The only small "High end" speaker that impressed me with how good it sounded regardless of volume (as long as you keep it below excursion limit and thermal) is Peak's Princess. (5" +1" dome)
The "regardless of volume" property is usually reserved to good designs using Pro drivers or very large speakers.
Most good speakers from both categories tend to share one property. Both are large.
The only small "High end" speaker that impressed me with how good it sounded regardless of volume (as long as you keep it below excursion limit and thermal) is Peak's Princess. (5" +1" dome)
The "regardless of volume" property is usually reserved to good designs using Pro drivers or very large speakers.
I'm impressed it took untill post #11 to get a negative response to PA
Uh, I think that was a positive response. Pano is a PA kinda guy.
Im just leaving Mississauga...I would have love to have a demo
could you explain what little bit of EQing is done? Im stuck finishing my Horn designs (QSC waveguide/BMS4550), I have them pretty well flat but I still have a "harder" sound from them compared to my ribbons (Neopro5i). I have the DCX so I can add "little bits of EQing".
Im just leaving Mississauga...I would have love to have a demo
could you explain what little bit of EQing is done?
These are cinemas so we tend to use a modified "X" curve approach. The amount of HF roll off is related to room size or number of seats. This will ideally make the direct sound fairly flat in spite of the reverberent field rolling off in the usual way. I do try to move the microphone nearer to the speaker, while being careful of the listening axis, to get a better feeling for what the direct sound is doing.
I have heard these in smaller rooms set up as hi-fi. In that case you need eq to compensate for the constant directivity horn rolloff and simple crossover network. They are very smooth with excellent polars, so they have potential to sound very good.
For a demo you'll have to go to China. That is where most of our recent installs are!
David
PA or Big Box
The Hi-Fi industry has totally collapsed here in the middle. A few allegedly "hi-fi" brands exist in the big box retailer whose name you know. They showcase the speakers on a shelf 6 ' from another shelf 6' from another shelf ad infinitum with a 40' ceiling corrugated metal roof and an epoxy coated concrete floor. Whatever a speaker sounds like there, it is not going to sound like that in my home. Besides, these brands also sell cheesy computer speakers, and I know what those sound like. At the musician's resale shop, I find used PA gear (failed bar band leftovers) with a few hi-fi trade-ins in a 40x50' cinderblock room with a 10' suspended tile ceiling. I am allowed to move the gear to the corner to listen to it. This is beginning to resemble somthing like my 15-30' living-dining room with 10' suspended ceiling. When the selections include only quad 12' guitar speakers, I leave without a sound, but some PA horn+15" woofers showed up, and piqued my interest, since the bass is weak on my previous speakers and the sweet spot for the highs is only about 3' wide and 2' tall.(Not horn). I bought the Peavey SP-2 PA speakers based on performance on Serkin Beethoven Moonlight movementt 3 and ZZ Top Eliminator, for thumping bass. If anybody intends to sell me a single driver speaker or some other exotic technology they had better audition it for me somewhere closer than Detroit, and in a room different than the Big Box retailers.
The Hi-Fi industry has totally collapsed here in the middle. A few allegedly "hi-fi" brands exist in the big box retailer whose name you know. They showcase the speakers on a shelf 6 ' from another shelf 6' from another shelf ad infinitum with a 40' ceiling corrugated metal roof and an epoxy coated concrete floor. Whatever a speaker sounds like there, it is not going to sound like that in my home. Besides, these brands also sell cheesy computer speakers, and I know what those sound like. At the musician's resale shop, I find used PA gear (failed bar band leftovers) with a few hi-fi trade-ins in a 40x50' cinderblock room with a 10' suspended tile ceiling. I am allowed to move the gear to the corner to listen to it. This is beginning to resemble somthing like my 15-30' living-dining room with 10' suspended ceiling. When the selections include only quad 12' guitar speakers, I leave without a sound, but some PA horn+15" woofers showed up, and piqued my interest, since the bass is weak on my previous speakers and the sweet spot for the highs is only about 3' wide and 2' tall.(Not horn). I bought the Peavey SP-2 PA speakers based on performance on Serkin Beethoven Moonlight movementt 3 and ZZ Top Eliminator, for thumping bass. If anybody intends to sell me a single driver speaker or some other exotic technology they had better audition it for me somewhere closer than Detroit, and in a room different than the Big Box retailers.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.