A Club Band PA system - Page 5 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Live Sound > PA Systems

PA Systems A forum for discussion of all parts of a sound reinforcement or DJ system: loudspeakers, mixers (desks) etc.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 27th April 2010, 05:48 AM   #41
col is offline col  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
col's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
One of the 4way crossovers that came to market after I had embarked on the current course was the MiniDSP, I will probably make one of these up just for a comparable option. There is a diyaudio thread here:

miniDSP - diyAudio

The foam in my OB spheroid wave guides came from Earl Geddes.

There is a lot of information on the JBL PT waveguide since Zilch worked out a very good passive crossover to go with it on the Selenium D210TI.

col.
__________________
http://www.minirig.org.au
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th April 2010, 05:51 AM   #42
diyAudio Member
 
Top Shelf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Midland, Ontario
I have a similar interest in making mid-highs for my DJ rig with exactly the same type components except I want to use a separate 15" midbass box and a quad 8" mmtmm box ( for when the 15" MB isn't necessary) with a 4" vc 2" throat horn(cuz I don't play alot of music that features 3" by 1/8" wind chimes)
I also use dual 18's as base(bass) stacks and my rig needs to be under 8'tall as well
I hope you get many excellent responses as this thread can help both of us!!!
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th April 2010, 06:13 AM   #43
diyAudio Member
 
Top Shelf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Midland, Ontario
That line array v-dosc box has the 7" drivers x'd so low due to the dual cone coupling(1/2 wavelength ) spacing( cone c-c), also the reason that they use two comp drivers to be able to handle that 1100-1300hz x-over region. I have similar boxes in use (sans 15"ers) that sound really nice and are only 18" wide, though they are deep
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th April 2010, 08:07 AM   #44
diyAudio Member
 
technofreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Send a message via MSN to technofreak
Quote:
Originally Posted by col View Post
just a comment on using smaller drivers for mids. I found them to beem too much in my last system, they are great when you are standing in front of them, soon as you walk off axis though they loose coverage. I see no problem using a 12" in a mid as long as you don't go too close to the frequency tolerance of the driver.
Interesting, I would say that small driver have wider dispersion than large 12" and 15" which need to be crossed over lower due to this (and cone break-up). Crossover in the 1...2 kHz range has its own problems, especially a lot of compression drivers seem to sound very harsh and aggressive in that range when pushed (on the other hand, that is what many rock and punk bands want). I very much share the view of Tony Andrews (former designer for Turbosound, now the founder and head of Funktion-One), that is, mid frequencies should not be divided between two totally different drivers and line array is not a panacea for every problem encountered in pro audio.
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th April 2010, 08:53 AM   #45
taj is offline taj
diyAudio Member
 
taj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Top Shelf View Post
with a 4" vc 2" throat horn(cuz I don't play alot of music that features 3" by 1/8" wind chimes)
One day someone's going to throw some mini wind chimes into your trance/dance and you'll never know it happened.


Quote:
Originally Posted by technofreak View Post
a lot of compression drivers seem to sound very harsh and aggressive in that range when pushed (on the other hand, that is what many rock and punk bands want).
I've never worked with a band that wanted the PA to sound harsh, though I suspect one or two wouldn't have cared that much. I prefer to overspec everything in the PA to make sure it all runs well within its comfort zone. Hence the impression I may be aiming for max SPL. Not entirely true.


Quote:
I very much share the view of Tony Andrews (former designer for Turbosound, now the founder and head of Funktion-One), that is, mid frequencies should not be divided between two totally different drivers and line array is not a panacea for every problem encountered in pro audio.
That makes sense to me. I am a bit reluctant to apply too large of a driver to mids since it usually puts the vocal range smack in the middle of a large cone break-up mode region. It depends on how smooth the driver is in that region I suppose. The systems using dual 15" woofers crossed to 2" compression drivers seem absurd to me, yet they are quite common. In fact a friend just bought an EV Power-X PA system with exactly that configuration , which re-ignited my interest in this subject.

..Todd

Last edited by taj; 27th April 2010 at 09:10 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th April 2010, 09:08 AM   #46
taj is offline taj
diyAudio Member
 
taj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Is there any free/cheap PA dispersion pattern modeling software around? Not the T/S box modeling stuff, I have (and have created) my share of that.

..Todd

Last edited by taj; 27th April 2010 at 09:11 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th April 2010, 10:09 AM   #47
col is offline col  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
col's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by technofreak View Post
Interesting, I would say that small driver have wider dispersion than large 12" and 15" which need to be crossed over lower due to this (and cone break-up). Crossover in the 1...2 kHz range has its own problems, especially a lot of compression drivers seem to sound very harsh and aggressive in that range when pushed (on the other hand, that is what many rock and punk bands want). I very much share the view of Tony Andrews (former designer for Turbosound, now the founder and head of Funktion-One), that is, mid frequencies should not be divided between two totally different drivers and line array is not a panacea for every problem encountered in pro audio.
I don't expect to get cone break-up from a 12" driver that has a usable frequency range up to 4khz when I'm crossing out of it at 2.5khz with a 24db slope.

I think many club PAs sound harsh usually as a result of poor EQ'ing and lack of room correction. Especially, with high frequency reflections from long throw horns. In Melbourne there are many clubs with Funktion-One systems in them and they sound terrible due to bad room tuning. Actually, as much as I love the sound of a Good Funktion-One system at an outdoor gig. I have never heard one sound good inside a club.

col.
__________________
http://www.minirig.org.au
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th April 2010, 10:16 AM   #48
diyAudio Member
 
technofreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Send a message via MSN to technofreak
Quote:
Originally Posted by taj View Post
The systems using dual 15" woofers crossed to 2" compression drivers seem absurd to me, yet they are quite common. In fact a friend just bought an EV Power-X PA system with exactly that configuration , which re-ignited my interest in this subject.

..Todd
I guess it's that "look, it's BIG, it MUST be good!" attitude. Where I live there seems to be a strong opinion that if it doesn't have 15" mid/bass driver, it's not a proper PA speaker. I've even seen more than one PA speaker built by some local "experts" that pair 15" bass driver with 2 or 4 horizontally arranged bullet supertweeters, which is, of course, totally inappropriate. The result - no real bass but overblown and boomy mid-bass, muddy low-mid, harsh high-mid (if it's even there) and treble, totally unintelligible vocals.
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th April 2010, 10:28 AM   #49
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
I thought I should throw in some info about line arrays. The article goes through history of sound reproduction and how it came up to this point.
Well worth the read and might help understand some differences and goals this thread is about.
Large Format Concert Arrays
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th April 2010, 03:17 PM   #50
diyAudio Member
 
technofreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Send a message via MSN to technofreak
Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Web View Post
I thought I should throw in some info about line arrays. The article goes through history of sound reproduction and how it came up to this point.
Well worth the read and might help understand some differences and goals this thread is about.
Large Format Concert Arrays
I just finished reading it. To me it looks like some marketing text to Nexo. All that bashing of conventional point source use for large systems. Don't get me wrong, I've heard good sounding line arrays (Martin Audio IIRC) and just plain awful point sources, but the fact is, if you know what you're doing and use the right tools, you can get excellent results with point sources for large systems. Line arrays generally have some serious compromises and so-called "compact line arrays" consisting of 2 to 8 small 2-way boxes with 6,5...8" midbasses won't work at all as a true line source, just more-or-less like conventional speaker boxes but with fancy rigging hardware. Sadly the industry is largely just fashion-driven.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Band PA Question eddog Solid State 8 15th October 2007 04:53 PM
PA system for band practice DeadSpeaker PA Systems 5 10th August 2007 04:01 AM
Looking for a DIY PA system for my sons Garage Band airframe Instruments and Amps 24 30th June 2006 04:20 AM
PA system got me down.... xstephanx Multi-Way 27 28th April 2006 12:46 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:53 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2