Disappointing CD's....

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audio-kraut said:


what an excuse - if someone doesn't care how their music is produced - why should I give a s...t about their music.
Sloppy production is an affront to the listener and imo inexcusable.

If that's their "production" philosophy - the trash can is always wide open.
Considerng the effort that was put into production with what they had in the sixties and seventies...this attitude stinks.


Making a recording is a creative process. Individual sounds are like techniques in a painter's arsenal. If a band thinks that certain lo-fi or downright weird approach to capturing and mixing of their music is appropriate- so be it. Recording studio is not a white coat lab where purity of the product is the goal. What counts is creativity and uniqness. If you don't care for the product don't buy it.

BTW. Do you disqualify all the paintings from the impressionist era because they have no detail and all seem out of focus? Are Leonardo Da Vinci and Michealangelo the ultimate artists because they painted to reflect reality?

What popular movie these days is made to look real? Would you want to watch a single stationary camera view of a set with no special lighting and no makeup on the actors? I think not.
This translates directly to recording. Makeup is like EQ, lighting is like compression, camera work is multitracking, editing is like mixing, special effects are like- you guessed it- special effects in music.
Synthesis of sounds is like digitally creating dinosaurs and aliens in movies.

Yes, some guys ( I should say most) in the studio get carried away with technology, but that's what separates the men from the boys. Men know how to use the tools to their advantage, while boys just use the tools.
 
Re: CD´s poor quality

jmateus said:

This reminds me the FM band (even though is not comparable),
many years ago its quality was relatively acceptable and a tuner
was a justifiable piece of equipment to have in your system. Today,
well, forget... And the same applies to the TV sound! May be when
the HDTV becomes more affordable....

I am afraid things won't improve and here is why. In January I got a 90 days free trial to XM Radio. Even though there is interesting material being broadcast, the poor audio quality (128Kbits) gets fatiguing very fast. I stopped listening to it even before the trial period expired. XM Radio has over 4 million subscribers paying $12.99 a month that obviously do not mind the poor sound quality. In other words, people who care about the quality of recordings and broadcast are in minority and do not really impact the recording and broadcast companies bottom line.
 
I listened to XM on quite a few ocasions. Personally, I doubt the quality is 128kbs. It sounds much closer to their web stream, which is 64kbs. 128kbs can be very good with some codecs. The XM codec is downright annoying. It's the only reason I didn't buy into it. I just use the web streaming from someone elses account. The programming is very good though. I find that the DJs for the stations that interest me know their stuff very well and play good selections. I bought quite a few good CDs based on their programming.
 
Regarding compression, I use LAME MP3 ALT PRESET EXTREME which is 320K VBR, and averages about 228K (5 to 1). It is very close to a DVD movie soundtrack in quality, and not bad compared to CD.

Be sure to apply album-level gain with MP3GAIN, or the likes of Lenny Kravitz and Savage Garden will drive you out of the room (way too loud -- way too much bass)

I have become underwhelmed with anything lower in bitrate (i.e, everything on the WEB)
 
What counts is creativity and uniqness. If you don't care for the product don't buy it.


And "creativeness" is an excuse for sloppiness?
There is simply no comparison berween the 'stile' that is used to create i.e. impressionism, and the lousy recording technique that is used as an apology - yes, certain methods could be considered part of the creative process, but from the statement related here its about laziness, sloppiness and to insult the music consumer - and for sure I will not buy something like that.
It still does not prevent me from speaking out.
 
Adobe Audition

Hi Rick - I just saw your post today as we've been on holiday.

Adobe Audition uses a graphical device to alter dynamic range. Basically it's a dBin on one axis dBout on the other, so that for zero alteration of the signal, the graph will appear a straight line at 45 degrees. You can pick points on this line and stretch them to any point in two dimensions, either using straight line segments or the 'splines' function which generates smooth curves. So theoretically you can compress or expand as you wish. A large number of presets are provided, but most of these seem to be geared towards special effects and make matters worse.

I've sometimes succeeded in expanding a heavily compressed 'in your face at 0dBFS all the time ' CD (eg Shania Twain's Come On Over or Sheryl Crow's C'mon C'mon) using this tool. But I think the general problem with 'CD remastering' i.r.o. this tool is that you only have access to the final mix, not the 8 or 24 or however-many original tracks. So when you try and modify the dynamic range it modifies everything and the results often aren't what you want them to be.

The dynamics tool is quite finnicky and takes lots of practice to get it right. Sometimes the time this requires simply isn't worth it.

Regards

John H
 
Sometimes I wish that MP3 format was never invented.

Nowadays we are deluded into thinking that we are getting more (more songs) but in fact we are getting less (quality).

Since quantitative is easier to count, and quality is harder to prove....then I am afraid that we are loosing the battle.

Imagine a society 30 years later, with today's kids, then grown adults, used to listening MP3's only, not even knowing what high quality recording is....And we would become old, deaf granpa's who bu***it about good old times and good old high quality recordings....

Hope I'm wrong....
 
Dynamic range expansion with Adobe Audition

Hi SY
No, it was Angioplasty No. 3, despite years of good eating, high fitness, no smoking, clean living, relatively unstressful job and home life, fairly young etc. MD says it's bad luck and the general conclusion is that have to live with the cards you're dealt when you're born.

Hi Rick
I've come up with a series of settings for Adobe Audition's Dynamics Processor that can expand the dynamic range of a recording and take the edge off overcompresed recordings. I tried it on Sheryl Crow's 'Steve McQueen' which is the most 'In Your Face' recording I have. Sheryl Crow produced the CD herself. Ahem.

Here are the settings:
Band Limiting:
0 - 24000Hz

Gain Processor:
O/P Gain 0dB
Attack Time 1ms
Release Time 100ms

Level Detector:
Input Gain 0dB
Attack Time 1ms
Release Time 1ms
PEAK detect
Lookahead time 3ms

Expand 3:1 above -4dB
Flat 1:1 below -4dB
Compensation Gain -6dB

All other amplitude bands on the 'Traditional' settings page MUST be set to 'flat'. If creating the setting on the graphics editor, make sure you start with a flat 45 degree line.
The -4dB setting is the one you'll have to play around with on a 'song to song' basis.
The Compensation Gain is necessary because the dynamic range adjustment takes place 'downwards' If you follow this curve on the graphics editor with your cursor the IN=>OUT relationship is displayed you'll see what I mean and the way the expansion is done will be clearer.

So the answer to your question is yes, it can be done.

Cheers

John
 
when ever i buy a new cd i automaticaly get a sick feeling in the pit of my gut worrying how it will sound when i get it home and i thought i was being paranoid until i saw all these negative posts regarding cd sound quality. it seems to me that it is just hit or miss regarding sound quality.
 
Alan Parsons last album. A deeply boring musical experience. Bland tracks, mixed in a bland way, with most of the detail that existed masked by an over-dominant bass. Shocking for a man of his talent. And exectly why, pray, did Mike Oldfield feel the need to re-record Tubular Bells? The new one might be technically perfect in both performance and recording, but it's lost all the charm and enthusiasm of the original, and to my ears, is utterly devoid of any kind of passion whatsoever. P.J. Harvey's latest isn't great either. Possibly an over-reaction to the number of wimp-rock acts around. I can't quite follow that idea: rock groups who don't. But that doesn't excuse the compressed feel of the recording, or the boosted treble that takes your head off if you don't have tone controls. Oh well.
 
Attn John Hope

Hi John

I only just saw your response re the settings for Audition's Dynamics Processor that can expand the dynamic range of a recording:

> the answer to your question is yes, it can be done.

And do you think it sounds better ie -
- Is it a desirable/ worthwhile use of Audition?
- How long does it take?
– You don’t like compressed audio - will you be doing it?

John



Disappointing CDs:

Becks Midnite Vulture
Talented guy, but can’t do retro 70s black music, sorry
 
Decompression Blues

Hi Rick

Truth is, by the time you've set up Audition for the given track and got it all to your satisfaction, you're so sick of the &*%$ng song that you wouldn't mind if you never heard it again.

But then if you play the remastered CD after a few months it really sounds better than you remembered, which makes it kinda worthwhile in the long run.

Regards

John
 
I wouldn't rule out MP3 as being the most terrible of formats to listen to. Unfortunatly there is alot of mis-understanding of the format and therefore alot of badly encoded music. Fair enough - some may hear the difference - however I think that a far greater effect is had on the music by

1. Recording Techniques
2. Mixing desk monkeys.
3. Poor quality musicians.

And these have nothing to do with technology - but rather human experience.

As an example - listen to the majority of Pink Floyds recordings and you will find their quility impecable - and that comes across whether you have them on CD, Tape, Vinyl, Mp3 or whatever other new fandangled mediums they come out with.

Compare these recordings with almost any of the new pop group recording - It is the human that makes the difference - not the technology.
 
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