I'm sorry that my mention of some CDs sounding worse than LPs caused so much contention. I didn't mean that as a blanket statement. Not all CDs sound lousy. I was simply pointing out that the remastering of "Live at the Apollo" sounded much worse than the LP.
But just to make matters worse, I'll say that dynamic range is not IMHO a problem for CDs. They beat vinyl easily in that respect. The problem with CDs is sample rate. At 44kHz sample rate you cannot tell whether an 8kHz signal is a sine wave, a square wave, or a triangle wave. There are just noth enough samples (it takes about 10 harmonics to approximately represent a triangle wave IIRC). Good thing I'm middle aged and my extreme high end hearing is waning ;-)
But even sample rate is not what makes some bad sounding CDs sound bad. It's bad remastering - pure and simple.
But just to make matters worse, I'll say that dynamic range is not IMHO a problem for CDs. They beat vinyl easily in that respect. The problem with CDs is sample rate. At 44kHz sample rate you cannot tell whether an 8kHz signal is a sine wave, a square wave, or a triangle wave. There are just noth enough samples (it takes about 10 harmonics to approximately represent a triangle wave IIRC). Good thing I'm middle aged and my extreme high end hearing is waning ;-)
But even sample rate is not what makes some bad sounding CDs sound bad. It's bad remastering - pure and simple.
You wouldn't tell if an 8Khz signal were sine/square or triangle even if fed from signal generator straight into headphones, providing the levels were correctly adjusted. The point at which square, triangle and sine sound identical to me is around 4Khz (from memory... give or take). I can hear to around 16Khz.
Are you saying that an infinite amount of distortion is OK over 4kHz? That seems to be what you're implying, if I understand you correctly.
Choose a different number if you like. Say 1kHz. Even including >20 harmonics of a triangle wave only gets you to a little better than 1% distorion (residual products from the FFT). Most people would consider 1% distortion (high order distotion at that) to be problematic.
In any case, I would really rather not pursue this line of discussion any further. The original thread was, as far as I can tell, meant to share information on great recordings. I was hoping to find some I hadn't heard yet and to share a few that I know of.
Choose a different number if you like. Say 1kHz. Even including >20 harmonics of a triangle wave only gets you to a little better than 1% distorion (residual products from the FFT). Most people would consider 1% distortion (high order distotion at that) to be problematic.
In any case, I would really rather not pursue this line of discussion any further. The original thread was, as far as I can tell, meant to share information on great recordings. I was hoping to find some I hadn't heard yet and to share a few that I know of.
No problem, glad to help, tell Mom hello for me and good luck with your SAT's ......
Sure thing, thanks.
Say hi to your Mom also, she left her shoes over here the other day. Just kidding obviously.
No really, thanks so much.
Say hi to your Mom also, she left her shoes over here the other day. Just kidding obviously.
No really, thanks so much.
Sorry about that OP for getting side tracked.
As to my original post, the SACD version of Dark Side of the Moon is clearly the winner as far as dynamic range, clarity, and accuracy to me.
I've listened to many different versions, including MFSL vinyl.
Has anyone else experienced the same?
Beck - Sea Change, hi res, from HD Tracks is also very good.
As to my original post, the SACD version of Dark Side of the Moon is clearly the winner as far as dynamic range, clarity, and accuracy to me.
I've listened to many different versions, including MFSL vinyl.
Has anyone else experienced the same?
Beck - Sea Change, hi res, from HD Tracks is also very good.
Can you hear this from the microphone position on stage? Most engineers who do surround recordings (like myself) turn off the audience microphones while the music is playing. So the breathing, whispering, and rustling is nothing more than very low level noise in the grand scheme of things. Besides, once the music is playing, these low level noises are effectively masked anyway.
Thanks for that. I certainly hope that is the case for all sound engineers who work in that field.
Because A) it is written in the music(there is a profound difference between PPP and FFF in classical music). It is what you hear in the concert hall live. And this is what makes a recording sound "real" versus a recording coming through your speakers. And lastly this is called dynamic range.
This happens as prominent delivery formats change, equipment has changed, the ears of the mastering engineer have changed or is different, speakers have changed, and overall a reflection of change. Is it really good, worse, better, or just a different presentation?
While I agree with you on the CD's sample rate, the reality is we don't hear music in sine waves, square waves, or triangle waves. It is all of this simultaneously, and that includes acoustical waves and pressure waves as well.
And let's face it, great mastering can make a CD sound wonderful as well. It ain't all bad with CD.
New to the forum, and am glad someone has tried to put thee thread back on track 
My fav recordings (production qualiity not content) are
The Animals...Before we were so rudely interrupted.....1979 and should be a lesson to all 'sound engineers'
The Communards...The communards
Bill Wyman... Bill Wyman (inc si si je suis etc)
My fav recordings (production qualiity not content) are
The Animals...Before we were so rudely interrupted.....1979 and should be a lesson to all 'sound engineers'
The Communards...The communards
Bill Wyman... Bill Wyman (inc si si je suis etc)
Queens of the stone age
Tool
- Like Clockwork
- Lullabies to Paralyze
- (Any other QOTSA really) Josh Homme is HIGHLY underrated
Tool
- Undertow
- Lateralus
- Aenima
- The Fragile
- The Social Network Soundtrack (not really NIN, but Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross)
- Siamese Dream
- In Rainbows
- Pablo Honey
- Wasting Light - purity in recording and mixing - all analog, no Pro Tools.
I have always found my very first listening of PF's DSOTM which I recorded onto a Sony 7.5ips reel deck from the radio to be my most favorite of all time (I skipped even the TDK MA-X 90 minute cassettes which did pretty well back then). Yes, there is FM "atmospheric noise" but that just brings me back to that night when I 'discovered it.' When CD's first came out, a local radio station would do a "digital audio hour (or so)" playing a whole CD uninterrupted by an artist. I was not even into my teens but knew of Zeppelin, Beatles, Kraftwerk, Cat Stevens, kind of a wide dynamic range. The repeating "THUMP-thump, THUMP-thump" immediately caught my attention. It is likely my #1 favorite album of all time. I CAN do the drums during that solo before it concludes with "Taking away the moments that make a tall day." But I'd REALLY love to do it for real on a drum set. I have made multiple "extreme quality" digitizations from that tape (without clipping) using pro cards in the 120dB range (super high sampling rate, both normal and extended bit levels, etc).
I also have the "regular original pressing CD" and then the Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab (MFSL) gold disc of it. The "tape slips and 'loops'" that were required to be used back then (I think it was Alan Parsons that did the mixing/mastering) can easily be heard, heh. Plus an odd "tonal change" at the end of the woman's solo where the piano fades out. The key (tone) raises in frequency for maybe one second and then returns to its original (proper?) tone.
I think the cleanest/sharpest MFSL disc I have is Dream of the Blue Turtles and track #1 is an excellent example. Alan Parsons Project works also sound very clean. Murder by Numbers (from Synchronity and the MFSL version) is great in my opinion too. And Wrapped Around Your Finger.
The worst mastered album ever (in my opinion), I am so sorry Mr. 'Mutt' Lange, is Def Leppard's Pyromania (and it is such a great album too). Lots of DSP processing to get it to my liking. It sounds so muffled. I run it through my E-MU 1010 DSP and then out the E-MU 1820m audiodock to the amplifiers (yes, I have one of the very old 1820m models with the DSP processing on a PCI card versus PCIe nowadays). Plus, the 1820m audiodock is no longer available. Frustrating.
I also have the "regular original pressing CD" and then the Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab (MFSL) gold disc of it. The "tape slips and 'loops'" that were required to be used back then (I think it was Alan Parsons that did the mixing/mastering) can easily be heard, heh. Plus an odd "tonal change" at the end of the woman's solo where the piano fades out. The key (tone) raises in frequency for maybe one second and then returns to its original (proper?) tone.
I think the cleanest/sharpest MFSL disc I have is Dream of the Blue Turtles and track #1 is an excellent example. Alan Parsons Project works also sound very clean. Murder by Numbers (from Synchronity and the MFSL version) is great in my opinion too. And Wrapped Around Your Finger.
The worst mastered album ever (in my opinion), I am so sorry Mr. 'Mutt' Lange, is Def Leppard's Pyromania (and it is such a great album too). Lots of DSP processing to get it to my liking. It sounds so muffled. I run it through my E-MU 1010 DSP and then out the E-MU 1820m audiodock to the amplifiers (yes, I have one of the very old 1820m models with the DSP processing on a PCI card versus PCIe nowadays). Plus, the 1820m audiodock is no longer available. Frustrating.
There's a Time
Hi everybody this is my first post.
If you like low key acoustic blues Doug MacLeod ;''There's a Time''
comes highly recommended. A true
Hi everybody this is my first post.
If you like low key acoustic blues Doug MacLeod ;''There's a Time''
comes highly recommended. A true
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audiophile album. One of my absolute favorites.Torn
One more Blues/Americana album. This album has a gorgeous low end, the upright bass is incredible well recorded.
This is one of the albums/downloads I use for tuning ports.
Sound Liaison Music Shop
some reviews;
One more Blues/Americana album. This album has a gorgeous low end, the upright bass is incredible well recorded.
This is one of the albums/downloads I use for tuning ports.
Sound Liaison Music Shop
some reviews;
1959
The 4 albums mentioned in this great documentary are all available in various formats remastered to hi-res files and sounding very good.
The docu is a must see.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dou3aSZmEg0
The 4 albums mentioned in this great documentary are all available in various formats remastered to hi-res files and sounding very good.
The docu is a must see.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dou3aSZmEg0
There is also a difference between CD's.
One of my favorite jazz albums ,sounds great on LP. The 1st CD version was also very good but in the 90's they came with a 24bit remastered version which sounds absolutely horrible. The mastering is important.
