It always amazes me how poeple say I listen to everything except country.
Now I don't listen to country that often, but 90's stuff like Goerge Strait, Clint Black, Reba Mcentire...that is solid music.
It carries a way better tune than most any rap song, and todays country is so close to parrellalling modern rock or pop, or whatever popular music is called now. How can you love one, but hate the other....that new Sheryll Crow/Kid Rock song is played on both country and "mix" stations around here
Anyways I mostly listen to Enigma, Vangelis, 80's, but I do have a few country CD's (like the artists listed above) that I listen to. Most of the music is about relationships and love and "gasp" good 'ol value.
The "What do you get when you play a country song backwards? Your car, your girl, your dog" joke just isn't true, maybe for some but not as a whole.
I mean one could easily hypothosize that rap is about ****** and killaz, and that rock is all about partying and drugs based on a few choice songs.
Anyways I'm not ****ed or anything, I just don't understand the mentality. I even saw a interview with David Bowie, he said he enjoys all kinds of music except country and western, and I'm thinking you can appreciate modern Pop which openly says its artist don't make any of there music, but refuse many talented artists simply because its a ceratin style? And David Bowie is one talented and diverse guy, I would think he could appreciate music in its rawest sense.
Now I don't listen to country that often, but 90's stuff like Goerge Strait, Clint Black, Reba Mcentire...that is solid music.
It carries a way better tune than most any rap song, and todays country is so close to parrellalling modern rock or pop, or whatever popular music is called now. How can you love one, but hate the other....that new Sheryll Crow/Kid Rock song is played on both country and "mix" stations around here
Anyways I mostly listen to Enigma, Vangelis, 80's, but I do have a few country CD's (like the artists listed above) that I listen to. Most of the music is about relationships and love and "gasp" good 'ol value.
The "What do you get when you play a country song backwards? Your car, your girl, your dog" joke just isn't true, maybe for some but not as a whole.
I mean one could easily hypothosize that rap is about ****** and killaz, and that rock is all about partying and drugs based on a few choice songs.
Anyways I'm not ****ed or anything, I just don't understand the mentality. I even saw a interview with David Bowie, he said he enjoys all kinds of music except country and western, and I'm thinking you can appreciate modern Pop which openly says its artist don't make any of there music, but refuse many talented artists simply because its a ceratin style? And David Bowie is one talented and diverse guy, I would think he could appreciate music in its rawest sense.
I recently rented a car and found a CD in the player, someone had made a mix of pretty good rap/hip-pop and I must say I have enjoyed it driving around NJ. I never heard the songs before and I wouldn't play it at home at my wine and cheese party but it seems to me that rejecting the genre flat out would be a loss and a mistake. Although it didn't make me a better person it gave me a different prospective.
In any kind of music you can find a lot of boring songs and albums.
The music industry makes the same things over and over.
I think its not only country or western.
You just have to search a lot and learn. Buying and listening to music is not so easy as one would think. You have to always keep an eye open (or ear) for the good stuff and not always buy what´s in the tops.
The music industry makes the same things over and over.
I think its not only country or western.
You just have to search a lot and learn. Buying and listening to music is not so easy as one would think. You have to always keep an eye open (or ear) for the good stuff and not always buy what´s in the tops.
Good Music
What makes good music?
Kinda like what makes good art?
Eye of the beholder and all, but there should be something of a common thread that appeals to the humanity in us all.
Genre is just a pigeon hole, isn't it? A way to make your musical filing cabinet neat.
Check out the songwriting skills of Lyle Lovett or Lucinda Williams and tell me there isn't something there for everyone. Considered "Country", these are very creative people.
Some of the early bluegrass and "mountain" music I heard as a kid were so raw and intense, so unvarnished, that after the pablum of then popular Perry Como/ Lawrence Welk it snapped my head around. Blues , R & B, the same way. Music from another, more interesting planet. Dylan, the Beatles...
Now, Nashville is fully capable of pumping out pablum with the best. Huge business. Slick productions, great pickers, and very little of that raw energy and creative spark we all enjoy. Formula.
Record companies. Sameness.
Even Rappers offer a glimpse into an world and a culture that can connect up with the nerve endings now and then. Just less frequently for me as other stuff.
Just a minor vent...
Tim Moorman
What makes good music?
Kinda like what makes good art?
Eye of the beholder and all, but there should be something of a common thread that appeals to the humanity in us all.
Genre is just a pigeon hole, isn't it? A way to make your musical filing cabinet neat.
Check out the songwriting skills of Lyle Lovett or Lucinda Williams and tell me there isn't something there for everyone. Considered "Country", these are very creative people.
Some of the early bluegrass and "mountain" music I heard as a kid were so raw and intense, so unvarnished, that after the pablum of then popular Perry Como/ Lawrence Welk it snapped my head around. Blues , R & B, the same way. Music from another, more interesting planet. Dylan, the Beatles...
Now, Nashville is fully capable of pumping out pablum with the best. Huge business. Slick productions, great pickers, and very little of that raw energy and creative spark we all enjoy. Formula.
Record companies. Sameness.
Even Rappers offer a glimpse into an world and a culture that can connect up with the nerve endings now and then. Just less frequently for me as other stuff.
Just a minor vent...
Tim Moorman
Two words:
"Hee Haw"
It went on the air in 1969 and had a monumental 17 year run.
While poking fun at itself and its fans it also gave those who didn’t get it, the opportunity to ignore it for its unsophisticated and common ways.
Along they way the also broadcast some pretty good music too.
Do I listen to country?
Hell No! What kind of a bumpkin do you think I look like!
... and pththtup, I am gone.
"Hee Haw"
It went on the air in 1969 and had a monumental 17 year run.
While poking fun at itself and its fans it also gave those who didn’t get it, the opportunity to ignore it for its unsophisticated and common ways.
Along they way the also broadcast some pretty good music too.
Do I listen to country?
Hell No! What kind of a bumpkin do you think I look like!
... and pththtup, I am gone.
Attachments
So what about The Eagles?
They seam to coveted by the classic rock crowd, but whenever I hear them, I hear country.
Is this another example of some country?
(yah, well I guess is is only about 1/3 of the recorded songs)
( I was singing along, poorly, to "already gone" in the car when I thought of this)
They seam to coveted by the classic rock crowd, but whenever I hear them, I hear country.
Is this another example of some country?
(yah, well I guess is is only about 1/3 of the recorded songs)
( I was singing along, poorly, to "already gone" in the car when I thought of this)
Did anyone mention that when a genre of music is labelled as "Country" it is clearly, (most of the time) targeted at a specific audience. Im sure there is a huge amount of relevant and excellent country music around but you'll struggle to find it clearly labelled as country, with a pile of hay and a cowboy in the front.
Take Beck's "Sea Change" last year, clearly it is country if you listen to it, it also happens to be excellent country, however that will be in the Pop or Indie Section of your record store.
Hip-Hop is a much newer genre and there is already a wealth of classic albums (as well as a multitude of really terrible ones.) You'll have to wait another 60 years to be able to compare country and Hip-Hop, Im sure by then you'll find them in the same section of your record store... Still vinyl hopefully.
People who knock country in general are confusing the difference in good and bad music with something as objective as musical genre.
Take Beck's "Sea Change" last year, clearly it is country if you listen to it, it also happens to be excellent country, however that will be in the Pop or Indie Section of your record store.
Hip-Hop is a much newer genre and there is already a wealth of classic albums (as well as a multitude of really terrible ones.) You'll have to wait another 60 years to be able to compare country and Hip-Hop, Im sure by then you'll find them in the same section of your record store... Still vinyl hopefully.
People who knock country in general are confusing the difference in good and bad music with something as objective as musical genre.
Country-Rock
Just reviewing this thread and it looks to me like there are a lot of references to what I would call 'Country-Rock'. This was pretty popular in the 80's with bands like;
The Eagles, Marshall Tucker, Charlie Daniels, Commander Cody, Pure Prairie League, etc.
These were definitely not Nashville acts, although a lot of these guys are getting some airplay on the c&w stations now.
One of my favourite groups from that era is Asleep At The Wheel, who did a fantastic version of 'HotRod Lincoln'. I see they are still touring and, hey, they are playing at the Calgary Stampede in a couple of weeks! Guess I'll get out the stetson, boots and big 'ole belt buckle and mosey on down to hear them.
Asleep At The Wheel
Later, pardner.
Just reviewing this thread and it looks to me like there are a lot of references to what I would call 'Country-Rock'. This was pretty popular in the 80's with bands like;
The Eagles, Marshall Tucker, Charlie Daniels, Commander Cody, Pure Prairie League, etc.
These were definitely not Nashville acts, although a lot of these guys are getting some airplay on the c&w stations now.
One of my favourite groups from that era is Asleep At The Wheel, who did a fantastic version of 'HotRod Lincoln'. I see they are still touring and, hey, they are playing at the Calgary Stampede in a couple of weeks! Guess I'll get out the stetson, boots and big 'ole belt buckle and mosey on down to hear them.
Asleep At The Wheel
Later, pardner.
I suppose you are all talking about "hardcore" country so kinda pure style music. Well , I don´t like it too but...
I´d never say that I don´t like country.
I listen to bands like Free, Bad Company, Jackson Browne, Sheryl Crow did some great stuff, The Eagles were already mentioned, James Taylor and these have all country influence, obviously or not so.
Never deny your favourite bands influences.
I´d never say that I don´t like country.
I listen to bands like Free, Bad Company, Jackson Browne, Sheryl Crow did some great stuff, The Eagles were already mentioned, James Taylor and these have all country influence, obviously or not so.
Never deny your favourite bands influences.
when music is classified into a style, it is baisically because of cliches of that particular style that make it like that...
common rhythmic paterns, instrumentation and arangements, melodic and even more importantly harmonic cliches used and so on...
what apeals to people is all to do with personal taste, and people will grow acustomed to liking/disliking these groups of cliches... it's a psychological thing firstly, influenced by our sociocultural suroundings and what is listened to by who... and the other important part is to do with how our ear matures... the more you listen to something, the more it will sound like the 'right' way for something to be done... go to someone who's only listened to western music all their lives, and then ask them to sing some eastern melodie incorparating 1/4 tones... then ask them what they think of the song... they probably tell you it sounds like **** and how can they call that melody... but ask some indian dude what he thinks, and he might tell you he loves it, especailly the pretty melody...
i personally used to be pretty open to a lot of music, and i still try to keep my ears and mind open, but i have found that since i started playing jazz, my ear has grown more and more used to jazz harmony, so much so, i sometimes find it unbearable to listen to some styles of music... country included, but to avoid the rath of country bumpkins on this country thread, lets pick on blues... especially the real cliche I-IV-V kinda stuff, with the whole 'my baby left me' kind a lyrics... and everyone using the same pentatonic melodie/solo lines... the blues artists put many variations on it, but when you start to develop your ear in a slightly more harmonically complex way, it all starts to sound the same... and it gets to the point where every time i hear another blues song i just wanna smash my head into a brick wall...
strange thing is, i can still listen to things like punk (old school, not any of this new school pop punk and ****, too much faked emotion, and i'll come back to that point), and other more harmonically simple styles of music, and actually enjoy it... it's all got to do with how our ear develops and takes to the cliches in the style of music.
... that's the thing of how our ear matures.
my love of jazz started a couple of years ago when i had to do a solo recital for music at school, and my guitar teacher gave me a solo guitar arangement for 'nuages', a gypsy swing piece by django reihardt... and at first i thought, eh it's kinda dagy, but i'll do it anyway... but the more i played it, the more i started to apreciate it... so i started listening to a bit of jazz, and before long, i found myself obsesssed with it... i started learning to improvise (jazz impro... you don't really have to learn something like blues impro... 'here son, we call this a pentatonic scale... just play a couple of notes from this shape and you'll be famous'... although, don't get me wrong, the pentatonic is a great scale in moderation, especially when substitued well, say a Dmin pentatonic over an Am7... problem (in my opinion) comes when it's all you use)... so anyway i got into jazz impro, and therefore also started really working on training my ear and all that stuff... but i was still listening to other music and apreciating it.
more recently, i have been spending a lot of time around a jazz trumpeter called Gil Askey (anyone heard of him???)... he's old and semi retired now, only playing around clubs here in melbourne where he's come to live, but for years he was touring all around america playing with everyone from, miles davis, john coltrane, ella fitzgerald, oscar peterson, herbie hancock, duke ellington, george benson, joe pass, herb ellis, and probably a great deal of the 'famous' jazz musicians you've heard of... they're just a couple i reeled off the top of my head...obviously, a man who's spread himslef so widely in jazz has been exposed to a lot, and since i've started being around him, i've learnt a hell of a lot, mostly to do with harmonic ideas in jazz... and he get's you doing stuff that is so unconventional that to most people it's verging on sounding ****, but as you're ear develops to it, it starts to sounds good, but without him, i would never have heard anything like it... he shows me ideas he uses, and told me about where he was using some of these ideas... like he said he used to play with a bunch of people, and they were doing stuff where they were going to the extent of making up their own scales and what not, and they were playing it all the time, so to them it sounded good, but they found that not many people were coming to see them because it sounded too weird... all because most people haven't been around people who are playing that type of music...
especailly more recently my ear has become more developed in the area of jazz, and therefore for me, even more easily anoyed by some styles of music... i just started a jazz trio and now i'm actually writing songs and we played for Gil to see what he thought and his sugestions, and he started showing me all these weird places i could take some of the stuff i was doing, and told me what i'm doin is conventional, but if i want, i can try stuff like this... and shows me something... strange thing is, to the average classical/blues/rock/whatever musician, the type of stuff i'm doing is so unconventional it'd be verging on sacrelige for say a classical musician, but to someone like him, who's done far more unconventional stuff, it sounds conventional.
that's just a single observation i;ve made in my own life of how people's tastes develop... and i'm only young....
more broader examples sticking to the jazz thing, why is that so many old people like jazz, but not pop/rock, and so many young people like pop/rock but not jazz??? probably because of what they've been surounded with... if a younger person goes to their friends place, they put on some rock CD for example, because it's not cool to listen to your parents music, or even worse, your grandparents music is it? firstly, you got the thing of what's cool, and on a psychological level, they'll subconciously decide they like a certain type of music because their parents don't like it (and this is a true fact, there's been studies done on it!), and then because this is what they're listening to, their ear grows to like it... if they played their CD's to their parents, they probably not like it because their ear's not used to it.
as far as rap/hiphop or whatever... i think a lot of people are too quick to slag this off as being **** and uncreative and what not... i personally don't like it, but look at it more carefully, and as an artform, which is what music really is, and you will see it is actually a style with some very creative people in it... read some of the lyrics, and you will see some are actually quite clever, and i would even say clever enough to be worthy of being studdied more closely as a piece of literature... even if people go, eh just another song about shootin niggaz, pimpin hoes or whatnot, the way it's written is quite often very clever, and creative... then look at DJ's... not comercial DJ's or ones playing in bands, but look at the underground guys, especially the ones going solo, and they are some of the most creative people out there in the music industry... it seems pretty uncreative just chucking someone elses record on a turntable and flicking it around, but listen more carefully to what's going on, and you hear that it is an art, even if you don't like it...
really, no one can say, 'this music is ****' because ___', because it's just what they're hearing... just like everything we make and listen to hear at diyAudio, what we hear is all subjective, and what one person hears might be different to another... no music is '****', but it will sound different for one person that it will for another...
anyway don't forget, THE most important thing in music... that is the emotional content... not how sad the melody can be, but how well the musicians can let go and feel the emotion they want to convey... faked emotion doesn't work, one of the reasons i hate almost all the music in the whole pop/emo punk scene...
anyway, probably a lot of people don't like country because firstly, it's considered dagy, and secondly, and probably even more so, the way certain cliches used in it relate to cliches of most other styles of music people are acustomed to.
i think the other thing is maybe people who say they dont like country are really only refering to hardcore country... like there is a teacher who at my school who is a hardcore country fan, and he says a lot of what people classify as country aint real country, it's comercialised country made to sell... he refers to this sort of style as dixie chick country, but classifies much less comercial artists than the dixie chicks under this label...
anyway, i've said too little with too many words, call it quits here... anyone who's read this far, i apologise for the excessive length.
later
common rhythmic paterns, instrumentation and arangements, melodic and even more importantly harmonic cliches used and so on...
what apeals to people is all to do with personal taste, and people will grow acustomed to liking/disliking these groups of cliches... it's a psychological thing firstly, influenced by our sociocultural suroundings and what is listened to by who... and the other important part is to do with how our ear matures... the more you listen to something, the more it will sound like the 'right' way for something to be done... go to someone who's only listened to western music all their lives, and then ask them to sing some eastern melodie incorparating 1/4 tones... then ask them what they think of the song... they probably tell you it sounds like **** and how can they call that melody... but ask some indian dude what he thinks, and he might tell you he loves it, especailly the pretty melody...
i personally used to be pretty open to a lot of music, and i still try to keep my ears and mind open, but i have found that since i started playing jazz, my ear has grown more and more used to jazz harmony, so much so, i sometimes find it unbearable to listen to some styles of music... country included, but to avoid the rath of country bumpkins on this country thread, lets pick on blues... especially the real cliche I-IV-V kinda stuff, with the whole 'my baby left me' kind a lyrics... and everyone using the same pentatonic melodie/solo lines... the blues artists put many variations on it, but when you start to develop your ear in a slightly more harmonically complex way, it all starts to sound the same... and it gets to the point where every time i hear another blues song i just wanna smash my head into a brick wall...
strange thing is, i can still listen to things like punk (old school, not any of this new school pop punk and ****, too much faked emotion, and i'll come back to that point), and other more harmonically simple styles of music, and actually enjoy it... it's all got to do with how our ear develops and takes to the cliches in the style of music.
... that's the thing of how our ear matures.
my love of jazz started a couple of years ago when i had to do a solo recital for music at school, and my guitar teacher gave me a solo guitar arangement for 'nuages', a gypsy swing piece by django reihardt... and at first i thought, eh it's kinda dagy, but i'll do it anyway... but the more i played it, the more i started to apreciate it... so i started listening to a bit of jazz, and before long, i found myself obsesssed with it... i started learning to improvise (jazz impro... you don't really have to learn something like blues impro... 'here son, we call this a pentatonic scale... just play a couple of notes from this shape and you'll be famous'... although, don't get me wrong, the pentatonic is a great scale in moderation, especially when substitued well, say a Dmin pentatonic over an Am7... problem (in my opinion) comes when it's all you use)... so anyway i got into jazz impro, and therefore also started really working on training my ear and all that stuff... but i was still listening to other music and apreciating it.
more recently, i have been spending a lot of time around a jazz trumpeter called Gil Askey (anyone heard of him???)... he's old and semi retired now, only playing around clubs here in melbourne where he's come to live, but for years he was touring all around america playing with everyone from, miles davis, john coltrane, ella fitzgerald, oscar peterson, herbie hancock, duke ellington, george benson, joe pass, herb ellis, and probably a great deal of the 'famous' jazz musicians you've heard of... they're just a couple i reeled off the top of my head...obviously, a man who's spread himslef so widely in jazz has been exposed to a lot, and since i've started being around him, i've learnt a hell of a lot, mostly to do with harmonic ideas in jazz... and he get's you doing stuff that is so unconventional that to most people it's verging on sounding ****, but as you're ear develops to it, it starts to sounds good, but without him, i would never have heard anything like it... he shows me ideas he uses, and told me about where he was using some of these ideas... like he said he used to play with a bunch of people, and they were doing stuff where they were going to the extent of making up their own scales and what not, and they were playing it all the time, so to them it sounded good, but they found that not many people were coming to see them because it sounded too weird... all because most people haven't been around people who are playing that type of music...
especailly more recently my ear has become more developed in the area of jazz, and therefore for me, even more easily anoyed by some styles of music... i just started a jazz trio and now i'm actually writing songs and we played for Gil to see what he thought and his sugestions, and he started showing me all these weird places i could take some of the stuff i was doing, and told me what i'm doin is conventional, but if i want, i can try stuff like this... and shows me something... strange thing is, to the average classical/blues/rock/whatever musician, the type of stuff i'm doing is so unconventional it'd be verging on sacrelige for say a classical musician, but to someone like him, who's done far more unconventional stuff, it sounds conventional.
that's just a single observation i;ve made in my own life of how people's tastes develop... and i'm only young....
more broader examples sticking to the jazz thing, why is that so many old people like jazz, but not pop/rock, and so many young people like pop/rock but not jazz??? probably because of what they've been surounded with... if a younger person goes to their friends place, they put on some rock CD for example, because it's not cool to listen to your parents music, or even worse, your grandparents music is it? firstly, you got the thing of what's cool, and on a psychological level, they'll subconciously decide they like a certain type of music because their parents don't like it (and this is a true fact, there's been studies done on it!), and then because this is what they're listening to, their ear grows to like it... if they played their CD's to their parents, they probably not like it because their ear's not used to it.
as far as rap/hiphop or whatever... i think a lot of people are too quick to slag this off as being **** and uncreative and what not... i personally don't like it, but look at it more carefully, and as an artform, which is what music really is, and you will see it is actually a style with some very creative people in it... read some of the lyrics, and you will see some are actually quite clever, and i would even say clever enough to be worthy of being studdied more closely as a piece of literature... even if people go, eh just another song about shootin niggaz, pimpin hoes or whatnot, the way it's written is quite often very clever, and creative... then look at DJ's... not comercial DJ's or ones playing in bands, but look at the underground guys, especially the ones going solo, and they are some of the most creative people out there in the music industry... it seems pretty uncreative just chucking someone elses record on a turntable and flicking it around, but listen more carefully to what's going on, and you hear that it is an art, even if you don't like it...
really, no one can say, 'this music is ****' because ___', because it's just what they're hearing... just like everything we make and listen to hear at diyAudio, what we hear is all subjective, and what one person hears might be different to another... no music is '****', but it will sound different for one person that it will for another...
anyway don't forget, THE most important thing in music... that is the emotional content... not how sad the melody can be, but how well the musicians can let go and feel the emotion they want to convey... faked emotion doesn't work, one of the reasons i hate almost all the music in the whole pop/emo punk scene...
anyway, probably a lot of people don't like country because firstly, it's considered dagy, and secondly, and probably even more so, the way certain cliches used in it relate to cliches of most other styles of music people are acustomed to.
i think the other thing is maybe people who say they dont like country are really only refering to hardcore country... like there is a teacher who at my school who is a hardcore country fan, and he says a lot of what people classify as country aint real country, it's comercialised country made to sell... he refers to this sort of style as dixie chick country, but classifies much less comercial artists than the dixie chicks under this label...
anyway, i've said too little with too many words, call it quits here... anyone who's read this far, i apologise for the excessive length.
later
I like country music, there I said it!
I dont have any country music however cause i dont really know what to buy. I hate badly recorded stuff ie old stuff so wouldnt want any of that. But whenever a country sound comes on the radio or something I really enjoy it. The closest thing to country I have is some LeAnn Rimes which country purists would argue isnt true country haha I dont care.
I cant abide rap its really boring, I dont understand why someone talking into a mic can get paid for it to be music. Now I sometimes like to listen to a rap track but thats not for the talking its for the rest of the track the bass the drums etc, which I get bored of very quickly. I suppose the only rap ive got is lauren hills do wop that thing.
Also you talk abou the lyrics "my grandmas farm was taken of by her ex husbands new wife, i want to kill her" style country music. Lyrics aslong as they are not offensive, dont bother me, if the singers is good and the backing is good they could be singing what they want to. Obviously a Really good soung has the lyrical content to match the rest. But for me it doesnt need good lyrics to be enjoyble. I would not call Sheryl Crow country though its pop.
I dont have any country music however cause i dont really know what to buy. I hate badly recorded stuff ie old stuff so wouldnt want any of that. But whenever a country sound comes on the radio or something I really enjoy it. The closest thing to country I have is some LeAnn Rimes which country purists would argue isnt true country haha I dont care.
I cant abide rap its really boring, I dont understand why someone talking into a mic can get paid for it to be music. Now I sometimes like to listen to a rap track but thats not for the talking its for the rest of the track the bass the drums etc, which I get bored of very quickly. I suppose the only rap ive got is lauren hills do wop that thing.
Also you talk abou the lyrics "my grandmas farm was taken of by her ex husbands new wife, i want to kill her" style country music. Lyrics aslong as they are not offensive, dont bother me, if the singers is good and the backing is good they could be singing what they want to. Obviously a Really good soung has the lyrical content to match the rest. But for me it doesnt need good lyrics to be enjoyble. I would not call Sheryl Crow country though its pop.
Not a big country fan but I had to point out that it is Stampede over here for those who are:
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