They contain each other. One can grow out of the other.
Have to expand my description:
Music is a process, using pitched and rhythmic sounds and movements, with which monadic creatures, such as ourselves, make primordial emotional experience available to each other.
Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzUN...=RDJzUN-0XSyxQ
So the sets of dance and music can contain each other, but can there be dance without music? Possibly yes.
I remember watching the movie Amadeus when they had a bunch of people prancing around on stage without music.
What about other visual arts. Is poetry contained in music, or do they just overlap in parts.
Saw the video of the operatic performance above. Wow. I thought her jaw at one point was going to detach like a snake does when it feeds. Talk about extension and power. And some mechanical advantage...
I remember watching the movie Amadeus when they had a bunch of people prancing around on stage without music.
What about other visual arts. Is poetry contained in music, or do they just overlap in parts.
Saw the video of the operatic performance above. Wow. I thought her jaw at one point was going to detach like a snake does when it feeds. Talk about extension and power. And some mechanical advantage...
Dance usually has a beat or pulse. Otherwise, it's mime, (unless you want to include mime as part of dance, and I don't see why not, unless it's poetry).
There was a beat there, but it was a theatrical device and some scholarly winking; most 18th century music unless ballad or church music, was set to dance rhythms. Let's stay focused and not look at theatre yet, Mr. S.
There is something in us which has really serious need to make our experience, (particularly emotional), available to others and which has reciprocal need to know, really know, others' experience. It comes out as music, poetry and dance. As they come from the same place and have the same intention, I think we can say that sometimes they seem congruent sometimes not.
My suspicion is poetry arises from music - just the quality of a voice of a voice can move us.
Not important question. I was being too clever. I think what's important is the congruency of source and needs.
"Music is a process, using pitched and rhythmic sounds and movements, with which monadic creatures, such as ourselves, make primordial emotional experience available to each other."
I thought the formulation was OK cuz each part can be expanded; or changed on new info.
Ideas are not original with me - I'm sure I pinched them from Hampson, or DiDonato, or Racette, or Fleming, or Finley who are fabulous singers and brilliant teachers we can see on you tube
https://www.youtube.com/results?hl=...ng+OR+OR+OR+finley+"master+class"&sa=N&tab=w1
and from a couple of other places not directly germane here.
I think this could become interesting. What say you?
Frank Agree - thoroughly satisfying discussion. If purely academic, still worth the effort. Even better if it leads to useful articulation.
Sync - couldn't have said it better. I got the joy to play while living abroad with a student band, it was one of the few ways I felt all the way at home there over that year's time. No explanation needed, just sit down, shut up and play music together.
I still miss playing. I saw some footage of an open mic jam night the other day. Made me want to pick up the guitar and learn to play. That feeling when it's all allright and you get the goosbumps up the back of the neck. That's what I am looking for when I'm trying to figure out this obsession.
Sync - couldn't have said it better. I got the joy to play while living abroad with a student band, it was one of the few ways I felt all the way at home there over that year's time. No explanation needed, just sit down, shut up and play music together.
I still miss playing. I saw some footage of an open mic jam night the other day. Made me want to pick up the guitar and learn to play. That feeling when it's all allright and you get the goosbumps up the back of the neck. That's what I am looking for when I'm trying to figure out this obsession.
The goosebumps, etc, happen when the music playback is in the "zone" - most of the time, for most systems, this doesn't happen - a certain level of quality has to be reached by the system, and then the "zoning" can happen - what I call convincing sound is then in the air.
Part of recipe is SPLs, part is clarity - usually hard to get both together at the same time ... but when it happens, you certainly know about it,
... makes all the efforts to get there worthwhile .
Sort of.
Yeah. Your brainwaves are all in sync some of that time. [ ]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQwDVf3ydUM
[Memo to self: Music is a process, using pitched and rhythmic sounds and movements, with which monadic creatures, such as ourselves, make primordial emotional experience available to each other. I said we have a need to do this.]
Binely and Sync, We're on to something. Look at this, it's only about 3 min:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrLQ5JC9Crk
People, rich and poor, every year spend what adds up to billions of dollars on music, spend uncountable hours making music and even more hours listening to it. This expenditure, of time particularly, tells us it's a vital thing for us and so looking at the "what is music" question is interesting.
Other folk think so, as well. Using Google Advanced Search, entering in exact phrase box, 'response to music', gives 4,270,000 entries! Google Scholar gives 7,360 entries. 'What is music?' gives 395,000.
Fortunately, when I saw Bineley's original post, I was slashing around on YouTube, (not Google search), watching classes being given by opera stars to students. Some of the uploaded "masterclasses" are horrible and those great artists should not be allowed within a 1000 miles of an aspiring musician but others are brilliant teachers and it's a pleasure to watch them in action - Hampson, DiDonato, Racette, Fleming, Finley. It was from watching them, probably Hampson or DiDonato, or DiDonato's interview with Janet Baker I cobbled this description of music:
Music is a process, using pitched and rhythmic sounds and movements, with which monadic creatures, such as ourselves, make primordial emotional experience available to each other.
I said we have a need to do this.
I think the process and need are results of evolutionary pressure.
Music, (and other arts), is what we do as performers and audience to get us around a serious difficulty created in concert with developing greater intelligence, imagination, and a very limited freedom from instinct, and it's this:
We are unable to directly know the sensory perception, thoughts and feelings of others, and we are unable to directly let them know ours. We even have trouble sometimes knowing our own feelings and thoughts. To a degree, sometimes quite severe, others and ourselves are a mystery, and everybody at some point is a stranger, even close family members.
Too much strangeness - alien-ness - brings up the issue of trust which, in face of nature, competition from other humans, and human imagination, is a necessity for individual and group survival. Music suppressed the golem of mistrust by sneaking in under the newly developed reason, consciousness, and imagination using derivatives of the sounds and cries our ancestors' ancestors made when undergoing sensations of pain, pleasure, submission, domination, anger, fear, affection, abandonment and, no doubt, sounds and cries they made singing and dancing.
Our ancestors knowing nothing of evolution, but like us, believing nothing succeeds like excess, kept refining the cadences, resolutions, rhythms and sounds.
This is pretty subjective. I think that's OK cuz that's where we live.
Gory details, like how it works, are missing.
Don't confuse the process of making music
with the analysis of music. They are different.
I'm not a singer yet I sing all the time to my little
girl. She's 2yrs and 1 month. Lately it's been about
Doing a Dootie for Daddy.
Do a dootie for daddy and make him happy.
Do a dootie for you and make a poo.
Do a dootie for daddy and not in your shoe-ie.
We are in potty training.
and is really pisses me off.
It only took a 7 week old pup once.
my little girl is taking months. : (
Singing works....even though I'm not a singer.
with the analysis of music. They are different.
I'm not a singer yet I sing all the time to my little
girl. She's 2yrs and 1 month. Lately it's been about
Doing a Dootie for Daddy.
Do a dootie for daddy and make him happy.
Do a dootie for you and make a poo.
Do a dootie for daddy and not in your shoe-ie.
We are in potty training.
and is really pisses me off.
It only took a 7 week old pup once.
my little girl is taking months. : (
Singing works....even though I'm not a singer.
I've been busy. Just checked.
I don't understand what you're aiming at here. Perhaps you could explain.
Regarding the following, don't you only know for certain, (at time of writing), that your little girl hears her daddy singing to her?
I don't understand what you're aiming at here. Perhaps you could explain.
Regarding the following, don't you only know for certain, (at time of writing), that your little girl hears her daddy singing to her?
"Music is spiritual food and irreplaceable. Anyone who does not live with it: will live and die in spiritual anemia. Spiritual life is not complete without music. There are regions of the soul, which can only lighten by music."
Quote of Zoltán Kodály.
Translate is mine. Sorry for my crappy english.
Gyuri
Quote of Zoltán Kodály.
Translate is mine. Sorry for my crappy english.
Gyuri
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