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Thread proposal - Socratic discussion - What is Music?
Thread proposal - Socratic discussion - What is Music?
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Old 7th June 2015, 08:40 PM   #11
Binely is offline Binely  United States
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Music depends on who you ask...

My own made up idea - I haven't checked for prior art:

Music is as perceived or recalled, a simultaneous sense and individual reaction in constant time progression, serving in oral (aural?!) tradition, combining to convey a subjective human experience.

Okay just checked for prior art - looks like I haven't ripped off anybody directly but certainly not original.
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Old 7th June 2015, 09:16 PM   #12
HeyBill is offline HeyBill  United States
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Some universal concepts seem to apply. Chemicals are stirred up, I suppose. Music is at its best when the artist's soul is conveyed. Old blues do it for me. HeyBill
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Old 8th June 2015, 12:59 AM   #13
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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What pleases the senses are patterns of stimulus, and often the more complex the patterns are while still maintaining an overall structure, the greater the pleasure. Abstract art like Jackson Pollacks's, by Australian Aborigines, does it for the eyes, why watching water rippling in on a large body of water is very soothing. Music is the equivalent for the ears, like someone massaging our back by rapidly and rhythmically triggering the nerve endings for touch.

When the stimulus happens and we don't have to put extra effort into "processing" it, then it works best. Which is the mark of high quality sound reproduction ...

Last edited by fas42; 8th June 2015 at 01:01 AM.
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Old 8th June 2015, 02:03 AM   #14
Binely is offline Binely  United States
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The most widespread music is perhaps not unlike a virus the most popular, because it elicits the most powerful of neuro chemical cocktails?
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Old 8th June 2015, 03:28 AM   #15
Jim the Oldbie is offline Jim the Oldbie  United States
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Thread proposal - Socratic discussion - What is Music?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Binely View Post
...I'm sure this has been done before.. somewhere. This just reminds me of my old college days... just a thought experiment to poll for interest...
For me it helps to try to narrow the scope of questions like these, to keep my head from exploding (I've only got the one - trying to squeeze a few more miles out of it).

First things first: Music is sound, as opposed to other types of sensory stimuli. After that, do we define it as sound produced intentionally as opposed to incidentally? Note that this would pertain to output, not input - production, not perception. Unfortunately this definition would exclude Cal's example, which was funny but also seriously feels like it should be included. So maybe intent doesn't enter into it.

Besides, like most things in life, intent and perception can work both ways. In these modern tech times I wonder if it might not be easier to define what isn't music. I know many of our parents used to complain that what we were listening to was not, but at least it was being performed by real people playing real instruments.

So much of what passes for modern music these days is actually just loops and beats, falling out of someone's computer. With regard to that I have come up with one definition that feels pretty solid, which is: If you have to press or click something to make it stop, then you're not making music. And I know that makes me sound a little like my parents, but I think this is a valid distinction. That stuff may be perceived as music to some (okay, millions), but to me it's just a product, like sonic spray-cheese or something.

-- Jim (puff, puff, pass... <cough>)
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Old 8th June 2015, 05:31 AM   #16
FrankWW is offline FrankWW  Canada
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Music is a process, using pitched and rhythmic sounds, with which monadic creatures, such as ourselves, make primordial emotional experience available to each other.

That's rough, but it'll do.

Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzUN...=RDJzUN-0XSyxQ

Of course, the example above gives rise to to far more difficult questions than Binely's.
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Old 8th June 2015, 01:19 PM   #17
Binely is offline Binely  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim the Oldbie View Post
... like sonic spray-cheese or something.

-- Jim (puff, puff, pass... <cough>)
That, my friend is thirty two karat GOLD. I will admit though, I actually happen to enjoy my fair share of it. I think it has to do with the 60hz cycle and it's effect on the body...

If I recall correctly, that's the part that gets people engaged in that primordial dancing. If that is what it is, and it could just as well be clicked on by a computer then:

I for one welcome our robot overlord of music. j/k.

Okay - this is completely gratuitous, I just like typing that sentence - I don't really think that way. But I do propose that there is a place for it if we break music down to its most basic constituent parts and build from there.

I don't have a golden ear, even though I can still hear 15khz and it hurts!!

And I'm not an EE.

So perhaps that is another way to construct a paradigm - what is music not.

In the set of all sets, what is not present.
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Old 8th June 2015, 04:29 PM   #18
Jim the Oldbie is offline Jim the Oldbie  United States
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Thread proposal - Socratic discussion - What is Music?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Binely View Post
That, my friend is thirty two karat GOLD.
Thanks. That popped into my head about 20 years ago, on the old CEAudio forum on CompuServe. Anyone else remember that place? It was great fun to log onto with the old 1200-baud modem, heh. People like E. Brad Meyer, Ethan Winer, Ken Kantor, Corey Greenberg & many others were regs there. I guess it was pretty much the only game in town back then.

Quote:
I will admit though, I actually happen to enjoy my fair share of it. I think it has to do with the 60hz cycle and it's effect on the body...

If I recall correctly, that's the part that gets people engaged in that primordial dancing.
That's important right there, I think. I'm so cynical about the production of that stuff that I disregard the effect it can have on people who are not me. Plus, watching me dance would be kinda like passing a bad car wreck on the highway, so, bitter about that a little. Anyway, even if we don't count the source and/or intent of the various interesting noises in our definition, we should probably factor in the perception and/or effects somehow.

Quote:
...welcome our robot overlord of music...
Düde - You could sell a butt-load of those T-shirts, heh.

Quote:
I don't have a golden ear, even though I can still hear 15khz and it hurts!!
You must be a young'un, heh. I remember having trouble staying in the same room with some of the larger CRT TVs back in the day - the flyback singing at 15.75 KHz really bugged me. I can still get out to around 13K, so for my age I'm a lucky guy.

-- Jim
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Old 8th June 2015, 05:48 PM   #19
Binely is offline Binely  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim the Oldbie View Post

...Düde - You could sell a butt-load of those T-shirts, heh.

-- Jim
Okay - why not - I just set up a campaign that ends in June for a fun thing I just threw together.

Here's the link to the thread. And Jim, I'm totally ripping you off on my text in the campaign description. Thanks for the idea, you totally deserve credit.

Tee-Shirt for fun Campaign

Last edited by Binely; 8th June 2015 at 05:55 PM.
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Old 8th June 2015, 06:26 PM   #20
Binely is offline Binely  United States
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What is not present in music. Dance?
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