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Old 8th January 2004, 04:09 AM   #11
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Default My Vote

Recorded orchestral music is still much alive (IOW: I'm doing my part to make it so). Thanks for the article SY.

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Old 8th January 2004, 04:19 AM   #12
eStatic is offline eStatic  United States
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Default Re: Dead no badly marketed yes

Originally posted by mwmkravchenko
I've enjoyed "classical " music for over twenty years. But it's the growing pains of finding the stuff you like that makes it so hard. It's still to elitest.
I would be very interested in what you mean by "It's still to elitest." And especially the particulars of the problems musical elitism has introduced into your experience of music. I am very curious about this perception and don't quite know what to make of it.

I mean, there are certainly a number of elitist posterior orifices in classical music, but they're irrelevant to the experience of the music as far as I can tell. Is your experience different? Or am I missing the point here.

I'm just not clear on this and would appreciate any explanation you'd be willing to provide.

This space for rent.
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Old 8th January 2004, 04:43 AM   #13
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Default if you consider

the amount of space classical recordings get in stores like Sam Goody or (a few) other stores, one has to think that the demand is very low in this area (South King county and pierce county in Washington state.
I used to shop in Fnac (Antwerpen) and the directory they had was enormous and it was always pleasant that the store people at least knew of recording a or b of a certain artist and could find it for me.
I think classical recordings should not be regarded as finished and the remark of Composer Klaus from Austria makes me wonder if he ever heard music like the Violin concerto of Beethoven by Perlman and/or by Oghi and if he can tell me why some people like the first and others the second one... In jazz you also have 'reference recordings, things that are such a good representation of what artist and composer combined mean or the interpretation of a certain artist for a certain piece, that you want to hold on to that forever. Think of La Callas as Mimi, unforgettable, you feel the woman is dying while she proclaims her love...
Think of Te Kanawa singing " i like to be in America" or Carerras singing Maria in a remake of the soundtrack of West Side Story in the Eighties.... The orchestra was literally picked up from little bars and of the street in NY by Bernsteins add, because Leonard was trying to get the real NY music feeling in the recording!!!!!!!!!! Unforgettable and now truly a masterpiece.
I supose you think, Mr. Klaus that this was completely useless of the record company and Bernstein, after all, there was already a recording from the Motion Picture....... How completely foolish to think that way!!!!!!!!

Think of, almost 50 years ago, Harry Belafonte at Carnegie Hall when he asks the wealthy audience to sing a capella referring to them as "Now The Scholarship section" .. the interpretations of artists HAVE to be kept for ever and some of us, and I consider myself one of these happy few that CAN enjoy this, are all too happy about it!!!!!
And when Nicholas Lens ( a multi talented contemporary artist, Mr. Klaus) made " the Fire Requiem' (listen to FLamma FLamma, please listen to it) then I can agree and say you should not exclude contempary classical inspired music but let's quickly forget pop in this forum.


Lohengrin in Antwerp.... to die for!
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Old 8th January 2004, 05:05 AM   #14
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Default Re: if you consider

Originally posted by uvodee
Lohengrin in Antwerp.... to die for!
I liked Pierre Boulez conducting Varèse's Amériques in Berlin. Wouldn't mind hearing him perform his own work at Baden-Baden.

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Old 8th January 2004, 06:39 AM   #15
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Playing the flute and the bass guitar (unfortunately not so often anymore nowadays) I have played music from the medieval times up to today by myself and I can say that I liked all of it so far.

In the last few years pop music started to become more and more boring IMHO, i.e. it also suffered from some kind of intellectual standstill. The best songs in fact are the old ones that are released as cover versions nowadays. And I am talking of the songs per se and definitely NOT the interpretations. But people buy them for whatever reason I don't know ........

So I wonder why this doesn't work with classical recordings as well (althogh you can't call interpretations cover versions, of course). Me too I can listen to different interpretations of the same classical work and still like most of them (and I think I am not the only one).

I think there is not much interest for the record companies trying to sell good music if most of their revenue is achieved with bad one.


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Old 8th January 2004, 08:21 AM   #16
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Default I second

both johnferrier AND phase_accurate

and yes I like Louie Louie and Waltzing Mathilda as well

And let us not exclude Mack the knife, Johny Surabaya or the Alabama song
almost 100 years old .....

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Old 8th January 2004, 11:59 AM   #17
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Originally posted by jackinnj

Is there a Dutch equivalent of the UK publication "Gramophone" -- I pick up a copy every month at Borders and scrutinize the reviews -- one very important tip -- they often cite the best prior recordings and these can be had on EBay (or perhaps you have CD and LP trading shops in Holland!) An investment in Gramophone spares me the disappointment of choosing by the cover.

Too bad that Hifi News and Record Review has become HiFiNews and Nothing Review.
There is a dedicated classical music shop here(4 minutes walk)offering most of the interesting new releases including the possibility to listen(and drink coffee while reading Gramophone!)
So information and availability is no problem around here.
But that horrid Rousset recording was actually applauded in

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Old 8th January 2004, 12:41 PM   #18
Mark Kravchenko
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Default Defining a Miss used word

Elitest. I mean that the music is :

hard to get to physically not much of it in stores

expensive to a new comer. altough there are some good budget labels now.

People at the record shop don't usually know what it is or how to help you.

There is still a stigma in the general public that "classical" music is snoby.

The truth of the matter is that most everyone when they hear something that they enjoy or that moves them emotionally will say so. What ever kind of music that they are listening to. I regularly provide demos for friends and clients and I have only baroque and early classical in my collection. They all most allways leave with a smile and a " I never heard music like that before "

If the music of the past centuries was prsented as just another flavour it would be easier to access. But it requires a pioneering spirit in that a bit of interest in history is needed. A bit of understanding of instrumentation helps as well. ( I personally played french horn for quite a while much less now as I don't have one any longer )

Popular music is marketed as fun and moving. It involves you and is relevant to the times ( what ever the record compaies think is relevant and the public gets spoon fed it untill they think so too ) Popular music is also short. Needs precious little patience to listen to. Try that with Bach's Passacaglia! The Goldberg Variations? It's music for more inquiring minds. But that's not saying that only "smart people" can listen to it. Like many other things in life some of the best traits need proper cultivation. A little here and there can spark a persons interest. To fan that spark into a flame of passion ( face it people can be passionate about music! ) is what is needed.

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Old 8th January 2004, 07:32 PM   #19
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Default No, it only smells funny....


Originally posted by SY

Re: Is recorded classical music dead?

One writer thinks so:
To quote Twain, "The rumours of my demise where somewhat exxegarated...".

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Old 8th January 2004, 11:42 PM   #20
sam9 is offline sam9  United States
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It's not dead but it is being transmogrified. The recorded music industry both classical and pop as we "traditionally think of it" is founded on two technologies: the Edison cylinder and the DeForest's triode, i.e., recording and broadcast. These are about 100 years old. Until the internet everything that has happened has been an advance on those two but not fundamental. The internet has the potential for a fundamental change.

However, note that both classical and pop music existed before the above innovations, but the business of music was drasticly altered by them. (As an aside, the Gutenberg printing press cause a change in the "business" of music of equal magnitude a few centuries earlier.)

Recorded music will still be with us but the "business" aspects may change in a big way. The interesting point is that even the priciple perpetrators (including Gates and Jobs) don't really know what is going to happen. My prediction is that in 2024 we will look back and realize that no one came close to predicting what was going to happen.
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