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Old 16th April 2013, 10:46 PM   #11
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Good advice, bear, but I'm getting the idea that sco1t just wants to have some creative/productive fun. I would still argue that my path to fame is the way to go...and a killer way to get some cred with the bands. If you feel that a profitable business could be made, then bear's idea would be wise. Still, no reason to walk before your crawl....learn some stuff by getting into this slowly!
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Old 16th April 2013, 11:37 PM   #12
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Unless part of the plan is to sell recordings at the live show, pressings would be further down on my list. At the top would be website track and album sales. And and/or bit torrent for free downloads. Along with Youtube promotional stuff.
It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from enquiry. - Thomas Paine
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Old 17th April 2013, 11:39 AM   #13
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I think the legal situation is that all income generated by a record is split 50/50.
The first 50% go straight to whoever wrote the song(s), the second 50% to the recorded artist/band.
Any costs incurred by the label like hiring a studio, promotion etc have to come out of the second 50%.
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Old 17th April 2013, 06:09 PM   #14
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Absolutely untrue, Charles. The legal situation is whatever the contract states. And there have been hundreds of records recorded/released with no contract whatsoever.
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Old 18th April 2013, 10:57 AM   #15
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So you are saying that my music production lecturer and the lawyers of my friends bands and my other mates who owned a record label are all lying?

What about all the bands which split up and/or went to court over writing credits?
Do you think that was about money or just a little note on the record?

The answer is of course that it is always about the money that comes with the writing credits. Just ask Lou Reed and John Cale.

Regardless of what the contract says 50% of all money made through sales go to whoever has the writing credits until that song becomes public domain which currently is about 72 years after writing. The other 50% get split according to the contract with the label.
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Old 18th April 2013, 04:33 PM   #16
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Charles, UK law is not the same as USA law, etc...

You may have a default law in the UK, not in the USA afaik.
And, almost any default law is superseded by contractual agreement(s).

Also, afaik, "writing credit" means not much, it's the publishing rights to the song.

John Fogarty had to fight in court for decades to get the rights to his compositions back.

Paul McCartney had to wait and buy his songs back... I think at one time Micheal Jackson owned them!

_-_-bear -- Btw, I don't actually know anything, FYI -- every once in a while I say something that makes sense... ]
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Old 18th April 2013, 07:04 PM   #17
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Maybe we just have differrences in legal strategy, Charles Darwin! Here in America, if you have a contract that states this:

The label owner agrees to pay for the pressing/recording of a disc.
The band agrees that profits in the sale of this disc will first be directed toward the primary cost of pressing/recording
After primary costs of pressing/recording, profits from disc sales shall go to the band.
If both parties are happy with the result, label owner and band may discuss terms for a second release. If both parties are unhappy with the result, then the partnership of label/band may dissolve without further action.

If this contract is signed by both the label well as signed by all band members...then that is the end of the story. The label owner cannot do anything if the band suddenly becomes hot property, and then wishes to sign to the major labels. The band can do nothing if nobody likes their crappy music, and not a single disc is sold. The label owner can do nothing, legally, to regain his/her lost profits in paying for recording/pressing.

Last edited by Lakeellis; 18th April 2013 at 07:08 PM.
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Old 18th April 2013, 07:12 PM   #18
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I also wanted to say that in America there are hundreds of tiny record labels that never once hired a lawyer to pursue a project based on fun! I'm guessing that the very same thing happens in the UK. I really hope I'm not wrong, because the DIY spirit is powerful amongst many musicians....
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Old 18th April 2013, 08:11 PM   #19
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AFAIK it is the same in the US.

Lou Reed and John Cale fell out over the writing credits from the Velvet Underground and the money attached to them for well over 10 years.

Writing credits rights are very much separate from the recording contract.
It is possible to sell them but that requires a second contract.
In the US it is mostly the American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers (ASCAP) or BMI who deal with this stuff, very much separate from record labels and whatever contracts they might have drawn up.
Similarly if a band or artist record a cover version of a song half the proceeds go to the writer, the other half goes to the record label who recoup their costs and if anything is left after that the recording artist gets some.

Btw I know a fair few people here who are either in a published band or own(ed) a small record label. They all have lawyers, even the ones who only sold a few hundred copies of their work.
I also met a few who sold substantially more and ended up with no money at all. They all have one thing in common: They didn't have a lawyer before they signed anything because it is possible that unscrupulous label owners might slip something in that may give them the rights to the song as well as the rights to the recording.
Bottom line and professional musician 101: NEVER sign anything without having YOUR lawyer reading it first!
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Old 18th April 2013, 09:59 PM   #20
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I guess we are on different pages here! Everything enjoyable about doing something that is more hobby-based than profit-based has been sucked dry in this brief thread.
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