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Old 28th November 2012, 09:06 PM   #141
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Personally, I found the same as my findings before. As Rull's said, the soundstage is bigger, but the biggest difference to me, is that the music sound more natural and fluid. More enjoyable as it just comes across as effortless.
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Old 29th November 2012, 08:29 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by sometimesuk View Post
Personally, I found the same as my findings before. As Rull's said, the soundstage is bigger, but the biggest difference to me, is that the music sound more natural and fluid. More enjoyable as it just comes across as effortless.

Yes!
Exactly why I also like 24bit, simply sounds more natural. I have talked about this on several occasions with electronic and proper musicians, and it is hard to really point to one big difference compared to 16bit, other than "it just sounds more natural/It just sounds better". This is also my experience.

... The different sample rates and bit depths compare fairly similar by numbers, and I can certainly understand why one would claim that there is no difference looking at numbers alone. And I agree, but it sounds better with 24bit 96kHz than 16bit 44.1kHz.
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Old 29th November 2012, 03:16 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by jcx Click the image to open in full size.
on a tour of a mastering studio the principal engineer said that he usually provided 2 or 3 mixes - one with high dynamics and only employing "artistic" levels compression on a few instruments - another at higher overall compression that he still felt had acceptable dynamics and one mix at the Loudness War level of compression - he is still waiting for artists/producers to choose any of the less compressed version for release - even after they've reviewed all versions and agreed that the more dynamic mixes are superior - they are just not perceived as "marketable"


Thank you for making my point JCX. For all of those who like to lay the blame squarely on the mixing or mastering engineer - here is what we go through, and here is how wrong you are.
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Old 29th November 2012, 04:23 PM   #144
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yep, sorry soundtrackmixer, you cant have, because its widespread, not just rock and pop its everywhere, records by artists who I used to admire for their quality of production have been ruined by overzealous compression and if you are all so up in arms about it, do something about it, dont just pass the buck
I disagree. It is out there, but it is not everywhere. I don't own a single classical, jazz, or gospel album that is dynamically crushed. Recordings designed for car listening(majority pop and rock) have this problem. Classical music does not have this problem, because Audiophiles don't do their critical listening in cars, and the recordings are not designed to be listened to in cars.

Sorry, but I don't pass the buck, I just recognize who controls it -and it ain't the mixing or mastering guy. We don't get the last word on what goes out the door or the whole loudness war would have never happened in the first place.

I have done my part. I do not accept any recording that has its dynamics altered. You bring me the raw mix, I balance and master it. I know many mastering engineers who have taken the same policy.
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Old 29th November 2012, 04:31 PM   #145
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In my humble opinion, the petition should be going after recording engineering schools and the professional recording industry (like recording.org for example) that target the folks actually doing the recording, mixing, and mastering. I understand that artists/producers/record companies greatly influence, but it is still recording/mixing/mastering engineers with hands on the compressor/limiters...
And you would be shooting everywhere but at the target. Much like Sy, you don't work in this industry, or you would not make such a suggestion. As a member of AES, I do not know a single mixing or mastering guy that sets out to make a bad record. But I do know many who do great work only to have some marketing or PR guy(or woman) tell them they cannot use it as it is. It is not marketable to them, and it cannot be played back on a ipod or in somebody's car(that is their target). When I make my own recordings(as I do every sunday at church), I have the last word on how it will sound. When somebody brings me a recording to master, THEY or their PR people have the last word. I do not know why this is so difficult for those around here to understand this. It is not rocket science.
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Old 29th November 2012, 06:41 PM   #146
mitchba is offline mitchba  Canada
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Originally Posted by Soundtrackmixer View Post
And you would be shooting everywhere but at the target. Much like Sy, you don't work in this industry, or you would not make such a suggestion. As a member of AES, I do not know a single mixing or mastering guy that sets out to make a bad record. But I do know many who do great work only to have some marketing or PR guy(or woman) tell them they cannot use it as it is. It is not marketable to them, and it cannot be played back on a ipod or in somebody's car(that is their target). When I make my own recordings(as I do every sunday at church), I have the last word on how it will sound. When somebody brings me a recording to master, THEY or their PR people have the last word. I do not know why this is so difficult for those around here to understand this. It is not rocket science.
Actually I am in the industry and a recording/mixing engineer. I started over 30 years ago and was part of the digital audio revolution. Some of my work was recently inducted in the Western Canada Music Hall of Fame: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONTrSUHLIK0&feature=player_embedded I am also an audiophile and write a guest blog at http://www.computeraudiophile.com/blogs/mitchco/

But who cares. The point I am making Soundtrackmixer is that for budding young recording/mixing/mastering engineers, a petition like this, that I support and have sent to all of my musician friends and audio engineers, is to provide awareness and education. Awareness and education to future generations that their voice does matter (with their hands off the compressors/limiters :-) and can change the industry.

All the best.
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Old 29th November 2012, 07:11 PM   #147
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Although I'm now in the video biz, no longer audio, I find that clients rarely have the slightest idea what they really want, or why. Unless the client is another technician who has to work with the video. Even then, it can be hit or miss. So I certainly understand that part of it.

Example: I have an upcoming 4 camera shoot for a gala ball. Of course I planned to shoot it all high-def, Apple ProRes, either 720P or 1080i as the client (a TV station) prefers. What do they want? Standard def. Yep, 480i, probably anamorphic. They claim it's easier to sell. Really? After all the local TV stations have spent millions to switch over to HD, they still want SD? Are you sure? Oh, well, you can only try so hard to talk people into better stuff for the same price.

But that doesn't mean I'll give up trying!
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Old 29th November 2012, 08:22 PM   #148
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By easier to sell, perhaps they mean cheaper, as in HD commands a premium?

I don't work in the industry so I wouldn't know, but that's normally the case in life, the latest thing costs more.
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Old 29th November 2012, 08:34 PM   #149
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Could be, I don't know. The price wasn't the question, the format was. Just seems strange to me.

If I can have my music in 24/96 format for the same price as getting it on cassette tape, I know what I'll choose. But you never know what other folks want.
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Old 29th November 2012, 10:31 PM   #150
SY is offline SY  United States
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That's my point. Requesting HD versions of crap is still crap. Barry's recordings are a delight and an exception.

Indeed. He shows nicely that the excuses that it can't be done are nonsense, it CAN be done. Same with Pierre Sprey's recordings. And I know I'm not the only amateur out there making sonically natural recordings to good effect.
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