Nirvana Nevermind 24/96 Remaster from HDTracks

[sharpi31]

Downloading this now - very excited

https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HD00602527805641

 

[weskoki]

Is it any better than the original?

 

[zlac]

I would also like to know are they as compressed as the CD or are they better?
Please scan them with ReplayGain and tell us the gain value(s) please.
Thanks in advance!

edit:
I listened Territorial Pissings preview on HDtracks and it's the same as CD, if not worse, constant clipping point, I hope "HD" version isn't the same, if it is, you should get your money back...

 

[Zero Cool]

Here is a question i have asked HDtracks several times and they will not answer. WHERE do their tracks come from?? are they just upsampled from CD? I am beginning to think so with maybe the exception of the Chesky stuff. I'm not paying $25 for a HD track unless i know it came from an HD source! I can Upsample my own cd Dammit! or better yet, rip a hi-rez track from Vinyl! But then why not just play the vinyl eh?

I love the "Idea" of HDTRACKS but they have yet to prove they have the goods! and if @erins comment there is correct. THEY DON'T!


YMMV


Zc

 

[erin]

The HD tracks appears to be from the original master tapes. The frequency response is very good, and reveals the tape carrier frequency ( the lines that run across the whole track)? in the spectral analysis, the only issue is that there is extreme amounts of compression applied, and clipping occurs as a result. So, no, this album is not upsampled, but I have read that some of their other releases have been, and dont even have frequency information above 20khz. You have to do your research before downloading....

I asked Rhino records the same question about another album, (which mastering is it) and they also were unable to answer the question!

 

[alant4321]

I have read an audio review about suppliers of digital music file up to 24Bit/192KHz Master Studio quality. Both LINN Record and 2L the Nordic supply true original master. HD tracks supplies some with true original master, but some with upsampling. It is just for reference since it is not formally replied from individual suppliers.

 

[buzzforb]

I sent an email asking about more info. I have bought quite a bit from them so it is important. Luckily I have only purchased a few HD versions.

 

[alant4321]

If you like classical, take a look at [2L audiophile reference] at 24Bit/192KHz in which most tracks originate from DXD at 24Bit/352.8KHz.

 

[buzzforb]

Here is the reply I received.

No. They are products produced by labels by mastering engineers, producers, artists and label personnel.

We convert and present them in the format that they exist in.

Sincerely,

Graham

hdt_logo

 

[beau2317]

I've bought a few HD albums from HDtracks.com.

All except one has passed the "Spek test" - which is to look at the FLACs using SPEK and see the spectrum.

The album that looks wrong is Manu Katche's Third Round, an 88khz 24 bit download. Here's what the spectrum looks like (all tracks are similar). Not only do any of the tracks have any content above 22khz, there is this wierd artifact at about 19kHz (recorded from FM radio maybe

I've written to HDtracks pointing out the problem and they say they have passed it to their technical team. I asked for a refund.

 

[alant4321]

The album that looks wrong is Manu Katche's Third Round, an 88khz 24 bit download. Here's what the spectrum looks like (all tracks are similar). Not only do any of the tracks have any content above 22khz, there is this wierd artifact at about 19kHz (recorded from FM radio maybe

For this song at FLAC format purchased from HDtrack:
=>The specification from HDtrack is 24Bit/88KHz
=>Your measurement is 22KHz
What is the display of sampling frequency for this song in the media player such as Foobar2000?

 

[beau2317]

I don't use foobar. The display comes from Spek. It's very obviously different to most albums I got from there.

Not sure I understand what you mean by "what is the sampling freq" - it's 88.2khz. You can find that on the top of the Spek display. That's why it shows up to 44Khz (ie half the sample freq)

 

[buzzforb]

Thanks Beau. I appreciate the effort. I have purchased about 6 more songs and all sound phenominal vs my standard CD format. I don't have your test equipment, but when i get my hands on some, I will check all that i have bought.

 

[beau2317]

Sorry I should have explained. ..
You can download the freeware Spek from here

You can then check out your songs yourself -it's easy. I have about 20 recordings (that's whole albums) or maybe more from HDtracks, and this one is the only one that shows this pattern. All of the others show signal up to 35khz or more, and none have that weird line on it at 19kHz.

 

[alant4321]

To be fair enough, I do not totally believe either HDtracks or beau2317. Just pay money USD 2.49 to HDtracks to download this music for verification by today:

The specification of source from HDtracks
Title: Third Round
Artist: Manu Katche
Release Date: 2010
File: No#6 - Springtime Dancing
Audiophile: 24Bit/88.2KHz
Duration: 3:36 min (i.e. 216 sec)
File size: 75,829 KB (i.e. 74 MB)

The display at media player Foobar2000
Sampling frequency: 88.2KHz
Duration: 4:10 min (i.e. 250 sec)
File size: 75,829 KB (i.e. 74 MB)
Bitrate: 2,466 kbps

Verification
1) By common sense to see the file size, the normal file size of 16Bit/44.1KHz FLAC file with 4 min duration is around 25 MB. For 74 MB FLAC file size at around 4 min duration, this FLAC file must be HD file at higher sampling frequency.
2) To verify by calculation, please note the formula:
*** Bit rate = No. of channel x No. of bit x sampling frequency
*** File size = Bit rate x Duration

Calculation
Bit rate of mono 24Bit/88.2KHz = 1 x 24 x 88200 = 2,067 kbps
Bit rate of stereo 24Bit/88.2KHz = 2 x 24 x 88200 = 4,134 kbps
Therefore, the actual bit rate displayed in Foobar2000 at 2,466 kbps is possible.
File size = 2,466 x 250 / (1,024 x 8) = 75.2 MB
Therefore, the actual file size at 74 MB is correct.

Measurement
I have reviewed the Spek – Acoustic Spectrum Analyser. It is a free software to measure the spectrum of all audio file formats. For all professional spectrum analyzers, you need to pay. Since Spek is a freeware, I am in doubt about the reliability of software. Anyway, the result of Spek can be taken for reference.

Conclusions
1) In common sense of 74MB FLAC file at around 4 mins duration, it must be a HD music file at higher sampling frequency.
2) By both display at Foobar2000 and calculation, I believe that this FLAC file from HDtracks should be 24Bit/88.2KHz. But, not sure about whether it is either from original Studio Master quality or upsampling.
3) If the measurement from Spek is correct that the original source at low sampling frequency, then I can only explain that this FLAC file is 24Bit/88.2KHz upsampling with original source from very low sampling frequency.

 

[beau2317]

I don't know what you don't believe about what I say. There's no doubt that the file that you (and I) downloaded IS an 88kHz 24bit flac. No argument about that. You can easily see that from the FLAC properties. You can see it even on the SPEK display.

The point is that the spectrum of the tracks from this album show that it is almost certainly upsampled from a CD, which has the characteristic cutoff frequency of 22khz. Didn't you download SPEK and try it? It's a much smaller download than a single HDtrack, and it's free. Or are you just going to claim that because it's free that it's results are some how invalid?? It is open source so you are welcome to inspect the source and show us where it's going wrong

How much does FooBar cost by the way?? Are you sure that you can trust the figures it's giving you?? It's not open source so whio knows?? lol.

For comparison, this is what a normal HDtracks track looks like:

 

[alant4321]

I would encourage young kids to make fun on measurement based on some freewares for personal interest or educational purposes. But, it is just for reference only!

 

[beau2317]

I would encourage young kids to make fun on measurement based on some freewares for personal interest or educational purposes. But, it is just for reference only!

That's it..resort to gibberish.

 

[beau2317]

For those who think that open source freeware can't be trusted, here's another freeware package that produces the same sort of results from the same files. Funny that both programs make the same mistakes, eh?

 

[erin]

To be fair enough, I do not totally believe either HDtracks or beau2317.........

Your comment about flac file size does not take into account the different compression levels offered by the flac encoder.

You can not judge a flac by its size.