Historical recordings.

[maxlorenz]

Hi

I must confess that I love to listen to dead people's music, preferably played by dead people also

Anyway, I am a great fun of historical recordings and own a little collection, the few CDs that I manage to find around here, mainly ancient opera recordings, italian and Wagner...

I wanted to share that the low cost seal Naxos has a terribly good Historical collection: both because of the tittles and because of the very excellent restoration engeneers, my dear Mark Ober-Thorn and Ward Marston
They arrive, on a least intrusive way, to extract the most of the musical experience from these old gems.

http://naxos.com/labels/naxos_historical.htm

As they state, rights for the recordings last for 50 years (regrettably not in USA ) so the catalog grows steadily with very interesting offers, some of them should sound even better than versions comercially available critics say...

The legal issue at USA makes that Naxos Historical is seldom available there, to my grief

Please note these beauties:

Parsifal, Muck 1928:
http://naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?...de=8.110049-50
Third Act is awesome.

MUSSORGSKY: Boris Godunov (Christoff, Gedda) (1952)
http://naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?...de=8.110242-44
You won't find finer singers...

WAGNER, R.: Tristan und Isolde (Furtwängler) (1952) Yes, it is available!
http://naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?...de=8.110321-24

VERDI: Forza del Destino (La) (Tagliabue, Massini, Caniglia) (1941)
http://naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?...de=8.110206-07
Ah! This one is outstanding (and the bass is better than my own copy).

I could continue but I don't want to bother you more...

Just register and listen to samples. For US$19 we are supposed to be allowed to listen to the whole Naxos catalog, complete tracks! Good use to my new ECdesigns' DI16 DAC

Cheers

M

[Christer]

Originally posted by maxlorenz

I must confess that I love to listen to dead people's music, preferably played by dead people also

Anyway, I am a great fun of historical recordings and own a little collection, the few CDs that I manage to find around here, mainly ancient opera recordings, italian and Wagner...

I confess too. You have a soulmate here. I must also confess I came home with three Naxos reissues of 1930's operas after a tour to Stockholm just a few days ago.

I wanted to share that the low cost seal Naxos has a terribly good Historical collection: both because of the tittles and because of the very excellent restoration engeneers, my dear Mark Ober-Thorn and Ward Marston

Yes, Naxos has changed from cheap but mostly uninteresting to still cheap but extremely interesting since they started reissuing historical recordings en masse. Now that the 50-year limit makes a lot of 1950-s recordings available and they seem to have started reissuing all the intersting EMI opera recordings from that decade, it is highly interesting indeed.

The legal issue at USA makes that Naxos Historical is seldom available there, to my grief

I am very sorry for you. How come? Is the south american market served through Naxos USA? What about mail order from Europe or Asia?

Parsifal, Muck 1928:
Third Act is awesome.

A mandatory recording indeed. It is also one of the few recordings where we can hear the original Graal bells of Bayreuth, which were destroyed during the war. Despite the limitations in sound quality, that is a remarkable experience.

WAGNER, R.: Tristan und Isolde (Furtwängler) (1952) Yes, it is available!

Indeed. I haven't bought the Naxos version, since I already own the recent EMI remastering of it, though. Another mandatory Tristan recording is Elmendorffs from 1928, now also available on Naxos. Don't miss that one (although also there, I haven't heard the Naxos version). And then also Reiners recording of Tristan from 1936, with Flagstad and Melchior is now available on Naxos, so they have a grand slam of all the great historic recordings of this work, I think.


Other Wagner recordings not to be missed and now available on Naxos are

die Walküre Act I & II from 1935/1938 conducted by Walter/Seidler-Winkler. Despite the strange history and the scenes of Act II recorded at two entirely different times and locations and with different people, this is the greatest Ring of them all. Yes, yes, three operas and one act are missing to make a whole Ring, but it is the best anyway. (Contrary to the previous EMI CD versions, both acts are complete at least)

Parsifal with Knappertsbusch from Bayreuth 1951. ( I haven't heard the Naxos version of this one either, owning the Teldec version myself).

I could continue but I don't want to bother you more...

You could never bother me too much with this topic. On the other hand, there is no need for you, as you probably realize.

[maxlorenz]

Hi soulmate

I knew that I was not alone...I searched around here a not a single thread about this, shame, shame...

As an amateur tenor (not a bad one, may I say? ) my first interest was in voices, preferably tenor voices, but as I grew up and as the quality of the recordings/remastering increased, the quality of the excellent conductors and orchestras became a principal aim.

Recently, I passed through a "chamber music" period that deviated me from my hobby. But as I built a couple of speakers I re-discovered my historic collection by listening monoaural...

Which reminds me, and you may know, coming from a country that gave such nice singers, what happened with the great voices???

I mean, can you listen to the contemporary "helden tenors" like Jerusalem or Hepner? I cannot listen more than 30 seconds...
They all sound like a cat crying in oestrus period
specially on those ugly "a" vocals...

The old singers had great voices and great theatrical use of the voice.
I always say that if Pavarotti et al lived on the first part of the XXeth century, they would have had great trouble to find a job at the chorus

I think the problem is the lack of good teachers!

About opera:

Tristan und Isolde: I think I have 5 versions. I lack Furtwängler's one
My favorite (vocally) is a 1943 performance conducted by the great (at least to me) Robert Heger, and mightly sung by Max Lorenz, Paula Buchner and Jaro Prohaska. This version is a Grammophono2000 remastered/reconstructed one.
Max Lorenz (see my avatar) was as his peak; what a beautiful timbre...needless to say that he is my favorite wagnerian helden-tenor!
http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/...ner,+et+al.htm

A pity that there are so few recordings from him. I own a "Meistersinger" with Furtwängler, live performance. Excellent!
I have also excerpts from Tanhäuser, in which role he is unbeatable as everyone agrees, and Furtwängler's "Götterdammerung" from La Scala (1950), in which Lorenz has a slower, heavier vibrato with less brightness on the top end. Furtwängler is very good here. Always an adventure to listen to him...The CDs lacks weight, though. perhaps Naxos will restore them.
Apart that, I have a few excerpts from Rienzy and complete first act from Walküre.

Parsifal: my brother has 1951's Bayreuth's reopening version: Knappertsbush at his slowest I bought finally a 1960 or 1961 stereo version from him, with Hans Hotter and G London. Very very good.

Thanks for the tips about purchasing. In my town, I found yesterday only 3 historic operas. I live at 900km from the capital and even there it is a lucky shot to find something. I rely on relatives that travel to the states, for other than Naxos...

Italian opera:
My favorite tenor is Aureliano Pertile. I think there are only 3 complete operas out there. I have "Il Trovatore" with Apolo Granforte and "Aida" with the lovelly Dusolina Giannini as Aida and the great Irene Minghini-Cattaneo. Music Samples:
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache...=firefox-a</a>

The last opera is Carmen on which I have no interest.

Well, my friend, I will love to share any good news about this topic with you, and with everyone interested...

Cheers,
M

[maxlorenz]

Hey! I found this label, which is Ward Marston's:

http://www.marstonrecords.com/html/catalogue.htm

True gems, like Conchita Supervia's, Cezar Vezzani's and Hermann Jadlowker's "complete" recordings!
Also a very old Parsifal from Teatro Colon (B.Aires)

A pity that the site is not secure to buy. The purchase option does not suit me.

They should sound good on my future horns

Cheers,
M

[Onnosr]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by maxlorenz
[B]Hi

I must confess that I love to listen to dead people's music, preferably played by dead people also

Anyway, I am a great fun of historical recordings and own a little collection, the few CDs that I manage to find around here, mainly ancient opera recordings, italian and Wagner...

.

[
WAGNER, R.: Tristan und Isolde (Furtwängler) (1952) Yes, it is available!
http://naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?...de=8.110321-24

Dear Maxlorenz

PSE put me on the list from people who like to listen to dead people's music played by dead people.

About Wagner T und I 1952.
A friend of mine is a complete Wagner freak and owns the lp cassette as he owns also the complete Ring cassete from Sawallisch (philips 1961) and much more (about 1500 records)

About later CD issues
I noticed that the later CD pressings (Deutsche Grammophone EMI, Naxos etc) made from the same ? mastertapes or vinyl's are really infererieur to the vinyl pressings.
So I made myself a cd from vinyl and then with a completely rebuild cd104 I cannot hear any difference between the cd I made and the vinyl one but a hughe difference with the later cd pressings.
To get that more obiective I let peolple listen to it.
They all noticed with no doubt the difference in favour of the CD I made.

I am now recording only analog ( MS stereo to a PR99 revox)
do the MS mixing anlog and then the 44.1 and 16 bits are coming up.

But back to Wagner
That friend of mine is coming over in August with the vinyl one's (and bottles of wine) to let me make cd's from it and that is a day job. (10 LP's two times about 25 minutes)
He also owns a hughe Wagner colletion of 78 recording pre WW2.
I have to find out what exactly he has.

So I let you now the results.

In the meantime send me your email and post address by private mail.

Regards and stay alive !!

Onno

[maxlorenz]

Hi Onnosr

Welcome to the club!

Thanks for sharing your experiences. Needless to say that I have "healthy" envy over your friend. As I said before, here it is difficult to get interesting old recordings and importing increases the costs. I must admit that I sin by spending more on DIY stuff that on music

I have not played with analog copies yet. I stole from my Dad an old and sturdy Lenco that I will mod/upgrade. I plan to backup his LP collection. I know of someone that copied LPs on DVD format and he claims that the result is better than equivalent CD copy(direct analog to ADC, 48Khz, I imagine). Maybe software (de-clicking/popping and other) is well developed to get even better results. I don't know.
I have some opera records, like an Otello with Ramon Vinay and a Rigoletto with Jan Peerce that can be saved. Also a wonderful "Barbiere" with Luigi Alva.

I read recently that my "Tristan" with Max Lorenz is in fact a Radio concert saved from WWII bombs by don't know what miracle...

About CD v/s LP sound, that's one of the reasons to be here: learn how to make good DAC's

I am trying to stay alive but it all depends on The Boss...

Take care.
M

[RAndyB]

A kind friend recently made a digital copy of an LP for me (I put out my turntable many years ago). He was able to do MP3 at 320k for me.

First the music: Aaron Copland's settings of Twelve poems of Emily Dickinson, and his orchestral arrangements of Old American songs; recorded 1963, re-issued 1980. (CBS Maestro 61993)

Now the quality of sound: from the vinyl: the whooshing background, clicks and pops of course, over-modulation wrecked by the stylus, the very, very irritating pre-echo. From the MP3: can't tell and would it make any difference?

The reason for the transfer is because Copland was accompanist to the poems, and conductor of the orchestra. Performers make an extra effort when the composer is there in person.

I believe that a CD was issued (probably in 1990 when Copland died) but is no longer available to buy.

Does this fit in with the thread? Dead composer, with the advantage of the composer performing?

Regards,

Andy


Oops! just discovered it is available in a larger compilation.

[AMV8]

Hi Maxlorenze

Great topic.

I like to listen to music of people who are dead or alive. I do not discriminate as long as it is good music well played.

I particularly like the Furtwangler version of Wagners Tristan and I also like the Furtwangler version of the Ring.

Over the last year or so I have bought a number of good quality cd recordings at low price. Some as low as £0.50 per cd ( US$1 ). EMI and HMV have both fallen upon hard times. EMI have been making a lot of low price offers of the best classical artists ( dead or alive! ) in their library and HMV have been reducing these even more. I think some of these offers are still available.

Don

[maxlorenz]

Hi RAndyB

Nice story. Of course it fits. I'm only the thread starter, not the thread owner!
The idea behind it was to let out my frustration about feeling a rara avis , listening to very old, bad sounding recordings, only for the delicious pleasure of hearing wonderful, almost forgotten artists.

Now we have also youtube to listen and see them (I found only one video with Max Lorenz paired with Frida Leider).

Hi AMV8

Thanks for your contribution. I will try to find those bargains.
Do you have favorite singers?
I recommend Max Lorenz singing Tannhäuser (1942, incomplete). Awesome.

Bye,
M

[gpapag]

Hi all
Interesting thread.
I also enjoy old recordings, live opera most.
Bad sound is one thing. Great performance is another.
Naxos is offering very good releases of historical recordings
Another label issuing historical recordings is Urania Records (Milano, Italy). You may find a list
here (i think the list is incomplete). Furtwaengler, Toscannini, Mitropoulous..., are all there.
Burning CDs from old vinyl at home provides satisfactory results.
Not all commercial CD releases are well transferred.
Mark Obert Thorn (Naxos) does a wonderful job at CD transfers from 78rpms.

Regards
George