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Old 8th April 2007, 10:55 PM   #11
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Pit – your English is one million times better than my German – yep understand what you say and actually understand half the theory behind it. All I’m saying is it’ll be a nice little experiment to see if I can actually hear/feel/tune-in to those benefits. I can then use this result on future cabinets to make a decision whether it is worth the effort if the speakers are just for my use.

As I wasn’t looking for more than additional bass from the new Smalls I am REALLY happy with the added dynamics introduced with the driver bracing, so if round overs add a teeny-weeny bit more – it’s a win-win solution.

Cheers - Phil
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Old 8th April 2007, 11:36 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by greenie512
I am REALLY happy with the added dynamics introduced with the driver bracing
You're getting it - and you get more out of your workshed than you'd ever get from any "High End" boutique. As to the added dynamics: they have always been there, they just got silenced. Steep transients are mainly a thing of higher frequencies (Fourrier synthesis), ie very little cone excursion. Now imagine you're playing billiards and at the moment you do your stroke the "recoil" of your queue pushes you back - how much movement would be left to be transmitted to the ball? If there's no billiards table in your favourite pub just translate to darts throwing.




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Old 9th April 2007, 03:13 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by greenie512
really glad your front to back bracing has an audible effect on the .drivers - all those holes took ages to drill out.
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Old 14th April 2007, 01:04 AM   #14
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Default The Review

After a weeks listening of the “Small Thor” I think I can now comment on the final results.

The main objective of this rebuilt was to get better bass out of the cabinet – success. This unit now sounds like I expected the original TL to perform (but didn’t). I’ve been augmenting the old system with a 10” XLS active subwoofer of various guises and it’s a great unit, tunes in well and really pumps the bass. But all along I’ve never been a great fan of separate subs, obviously it’s the only way to get decent bass with small speakers, smaller full-rangers etc. However for large speakers like the Thor I’d really expect them to generate reasonable levels of bass and the “Small” does that very well. It can not quite get the high level impact of the separate sub but these speakers are for music not HT.

The bass is good enough that I’ve disconnected the subwoofer and I’m thinks of selling it.

Now the real twist in all this is the other audible benefits from this design.

I really like the Seas Excel drivers but I know they are often criticised as being hard and over analytical but with my “warm sounding” Music Fidelity amps and aging ears that has never been a problem for me and the detail these drivers present with a good source is stunning.

In the new “Smalls” this has move up a notch which initially surprised me. However the front to back bracing has “locked” the drivers solid and along with the rest of the bracing this allows the driver to “sing”! Now this was hard to pin down at first but the best way I can describe this is a phrase often used when reviewing decks like the Linn Sondeck “you can hear the silence”. At first you think something is missing from the music but it’s the other way around all the “other stuff” isn’t there and all you can hear is what’s on the recording.

This new clarity make jazz, folk etc sound suburb it’s also makes the speaker truly great for classical recordings, rock and other types still sound excellent as well. The subtle effect of this is the speaker seems to disappear into the sound stage. The sound stage is now deeper so you can position artist front to back and I could never do that before.

Now is this all positive, well there is a subtle negative because all the other “noise/resonance/etc” has been removed you sometimes get the impression the sound isn’t as full as it should be, perhaps even edging towards a “thin” sound. Unfortunately that’s how the CD was produced, put on another well recorded CD and you are blown out of your seat with musicality and detail. So if you want a forgiving speaker – these are not for you.

Final Comment

Well those of you still with the original designed cabinets all I would say is remove all the hardware out of them and burn the boxes, you must build a Small, Short or Fat Thor – it is truly worth the effort.

You are looking at a Convert – a Zelot – a New Fanatic – gawd I just love my new Thors. Thank you, thank you, thank you Scott Lindgren (Scottmoose) for the theory/design work, Dave Dlugos (Planet10) for the great drawings and details and Martin King of all the MathCad models, Scott so aptly uses.
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Old 14th April 2007, 01:14 AM   #15
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Thanks for the positive feedback on the MathCad models, I am glad things worked out so well. I did not like the original Thor design right out of the gate and took some abuse for daring to say so on the Madisound forum a few years ago. I have always felt the original design would not produce the amount of bass the drivers were capable of producing.
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Old 14th April 2007, 03:16 AM   #16
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Martin, Scott & Dave – having revamped the box, have you any comment on the crossover design. I’d quite happily rebuild it with standard parts (non-premium) if I could squeeze any further benefits out of these drivers? I appreciate you did the redesign based on the original xover – so this might be a dead end question.

Cheers - Phil
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Old 14th April 2007, 06:06 AM   #17
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Default Re: The Review

Quote:
Originally posted by greenie512
You are looking at a Convert – a Zelot – a New Fanatic – gawd I just love my new Thors. Thank you, thank you, thank you Scott Lindgren (Scottmoose) for the theory/design work, Dave Dlugos (Planet10) for the great drawings and details and Martin King of all the MathCad models, Scott so aptly uses.
Thanx... your comments give me a warm feeling and a great sense of satisfaction

dave
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Old 14th April 2007, 06:14 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by MJK
I did not like the original Thor design right out of the gate and took some abuse for daring to say so on the Madisound forum a few years ago. I have always felt the original design would not produce the amount of bass the drivers were capable of producing.
I had a vaguely bad feeling about the original since the very 1st time i read the article... that we have worked thru the design, identified the original errors & missteps in the testing, made the independent measures line up, come up with a number of alternative designs, and then have positive feedback come back from those who had the faith to go ahead and build them shows that we should never stop questing & questioning.... now we just need to get some measures in so we have the kind of charts & graphs needed to write the follow up article for aXp (ignoring the consideration of whether the would publish it -- it would after all show that Joe is not infallable)

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Old 14th April 2007, 06:19 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by greenie512
crossover design
I never could get a handle on them so i retreated to either no XO (or vestigial) or active.

A good manyta might be "simplify"... the 1st step there would be working thru mechanical ways of dealing with the big resonances in the midbasses.

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Old 14th April 2007, 07:24 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by planet10

now we just need to get some measures

Dave, I don’t have any measurement gear but I’ve put the word around a couple of people to see if I can borrow a rig but I don’t think they have anything suitable either.

Could you give me a simple (and not too expensive) “shopping” list of reasonable components to set up a measurement rig. Computers I have so I’m assuming its mikes and software, I’d prefer a “kit” where all the parts are meant to work together – which would help a first timer like me.
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