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Old 15th January 2003, 10:12 PM   #1
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Default Trinaural - Anyone heard this?

Did a seach for Trinaural on DIY but came up empty.

Does anyone have this processor and what are your feelings about it?
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Old 15th January 2003, 11:48 PM   #2
halojoy is offline halojoy  Sweden
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Default Re: Trinaural - Anyone heard this?

Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Fitzpatrick
Did a seach for Trinaural on DIY but came up empty.

Does anyone have this processor and what are your feelings about it?
TRINAURAL

Sounds as a recording made
USING 3 Microphones

Can you give us some more info of this ?

/halojoy - curious as .....
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Old 16th January 2003, 12:17 AM   #3
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Default How New ?...

Hi Bill, this thing is pretty new isn't it ?
I could not find reviews, except for CES awards.

I have been down this track 10 years ago as a thought experiment, and came to the conclusion that 3 speakers would be good, and that 5 speakers across the front would be even better.
The problem with stereo reproduction is that the center image is a 'phantom' image, and not a true source, and also, far left or far right sounds are pulled back toward center by crosstalk anywhere in the record/replay system.
I agree that the 'common' (not summed) information would be much better coming from a dedicated center speaker, and the 'width' information coming from outplaced speakers.
One significant benefit of this trinaural processing is that the center, left and right speakers need not be perfectly matched.
Perfect matching of left and right speakers in a stereo system is an absoloute requirement for precision center 'phantom' image creation, and as we all know, this requirement is an expensive one.
Maybe I should put more thought and creative efforts into a 5 channel version.

Eric.
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Old 16th January 2003, 12:25 AM   #4
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This is James Bongiorno's answer to one of the many pesky speaker problems. I ran into him some many years ago at Sambo's restaurant in Santa Barbara and we talked speakers. Actually he talked and I listened while he went on about how inable a pair of speakers were for proper stereo presentation. He has, or think he has, found an answer.

This, combined with the VMPS Elixir speaker system took "best of show" at the CES this year. I understand it was "hands down and no contest." If you believe the press, things will never be the same again.

Here is a link for the processor.

http://www.ampzilla2000.com/Web_Processor.html
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Old 16th January 2003, 12:31 AM   #5
halojoy is offline halojoy  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Fitzpatrick
This is James Bongiorno's answer to one of the many pesky speaker problems. I ran into him some many years ago at Sambo's restaurant in Santa Barbara and we talked speakers. Actually he talked and I listened while he went on about how inable a pair of speakers were for proper stereo presentation. He has, or think he has, found an answer.

This, combined with the VMPS Elixir speaker system took "best of show" at the CES this year. I understand it was "hands down and no contest." If you believe the press, things will never be the same again.

Here is a link for the processor.

http://www.ampzilla2000.com/Web_Processor.html
Thanks, Bill
I am reading!
Always something new to learn ....
----------------------------------------------------

Reminds me of Crossfeds in Headphones-listening
Stereo does not give a Natural Reproducement of sounds
when listening with Headphones.

The Psychoacoustics of Headphone Listening by HeadRoom Corporation

A DIY Headphone Amplifier With Natural Crossfeed.
An Enhanced-Bass Natural Crossfeed Filter


Linkwitz is also one who is mentioned in this papers.
--------------------------------------------------------------

Halo - never finished when it comes to learning new things
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Old 16th January 2003, 01:35 AM   #6
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Default Beaten To The Post .....

Some of my thoughts extending to doing this process between the DSP and multiple DAC output stages in an otherwise standard cdp.
My thoughts were that a 'common' signal could be derived in digital, and that 'common' signal be compared digitally to the L/R digital signals to derive the width digital data.
There was a weighting of digital values involved too I vaguely recall.
I just forget my reasoning for running 5 channels, but I reasoned it to be better than 3 channels, and I think it went 'common' center, normal L & R, and the width speakers outside that, to provide a seamless transition from center to the far image width extremes - I would expect to start getting surround effects from this arrangement for simply mic'd live recordings at least.
Alas, that is about as far as that experimentation went, and I have not gettten around to doing anything concrete with it yet - probably later during this year - a couple of other ground breakers to turn into products yet.

I did a quick patent search but did not come up with results.
Anybody know anything more regarding this device ?.

Eric.
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Old 16th January 2003, 08:42 AM   #7
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Default There's nothing new under the sun.....

This isn't as unique as that link suggests. Meridian did a similar thing with several of their digital processors a couple of years ago. Look for 'Trifield+Meridian'.

A bit more history:
Bell Labs researched the idea of three channel back in the '30s, they even arranged for a 'live' three channel radio transmission in 1933 from Philadelphia to Washington as a special demonstration.

Paul Klipsch looked at this research in the '50s and '60s. Peter Walker and DTN Williamson played with idea during the development of the original Quad Electrostatics in the 1950's. In the '90s Michael Gerzon also researched the concept, details of which were published in the AES Journal July/August 1992.

An interesting concept.
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Old 17th January 2003, 12:09 AM   #8
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It also appears to bear some resemblance to Dolby Prologic 2 as it can be done in the analog domain. Jim Fosgate developed DPL2 with tubes and then Dolby converted it to DSP. Fosgate Audionics is now selling Jim's original tube version.

http://www.fosgateaudionics.com/products/FAP-V1.asp

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 17th January 2003, 12:38 AM   #9
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So you could have a massive hi-fidelity center speaker like the big IMF/Fried ones with the B139 in a transmisison line and then a pair of little bose cubes on the sides?
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Old 17th January 2003, 02:26 AM   #10
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The S/N is quite low around here, isn't it?

I asked if anyone has heard it and what their impressions might be and all I get a lot of background noise.
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