One note to Winisd and other programs.
Most programs calculate nearly the same for the needed
volumina.
But be aware to always build to small cases when using
a passive design!
There is only one freeware tool available (ok i don´t know
much of them) that takes the resistance of the series inductor
in mind that changes the whole behaviour of the chassis.
You can download Basscad here:
http://www-user.tu-cottbus.de/~foellnk/hifisite.htm
It will calculate near the same dimensions for your speakers
as Winisd for example but gives you the much important additional
info on what happens when the resistance of the series inductor
of your cross-over comes into play. On a low impedance chassis
this will be several liters you need more if the resistance of this inductor
is only marginal higher.
For my system Winisd and basscalculator spits out ~26 liters.
Basscad also. With a seriesinductor with a resistance of 0,19Ohm
Basscad suggests 30,5 liters!
So i have build a ~30 liter box and have nearly exaxt the behavioour
i wished. Especially the impedance peaks (resonances) nearly fit perfect
to the simulation of basscalculator for 25 liters without the resistance
in mind!
I only verified this with my pair of speakers and the fantastic
Basscalculator from f4ier. The way it shows the impedance peaks
is wonderful for a piece of freeware.
Most programs calculate nearly the same for the needed
volumina.
But be aware to always build to small cases when using
a passive design!
There is only one freeware tool available (ok i don´t know
much of them) that takes the resistance of the series inductor
in mind that changes the whole behaviour of the chassis.
You can download Basscad here:
http://www-user.tu-cottbus.de/~foellnk/hifisite.htm
It will calculate near the same dimensions for your speakers
as Winisd for example but gives you the much important additional
info on what happens when the resistance of the series inductor
of your cross-over comes into play. On a low impedance chassis
this will be several liters you need more if the resistance of this inductor
is only marginal higher.
For my system Winisd and basscalculator spits out ~26 liters.
Basscad also. With a seriesinductor with a resistance of 0,19Ohm
Basscad suggests 30,5 liters!
So i have build a ~30 liter box and have nearly exaxt the behavioour
i wished. Especially the impedance peaks (resonances) nearly fit perfect
to the simulation of basscalculator for 25 liters without the resistance
in mind!
I only verified this with my pair of speakers and the fantastic
Basscalculator from f4ier. The way it shows the impedance peaks
is wonderful for a piece of freeware.
Ups!
f4ier when you can read this! Sorry!
Now i undertand (much to late)!
For all others - Basscalculator can handle this
in a way also. Add the inductor resistance to the
Amplifier Output Resistance and you can play around also.
I have to apologize for the misinformation, especially to f4ier!
(he knows why i write it here)
f4ier when you can read this! Sorry!
Now i undertand (much to late)!
For all others - Basscalculator can handle this
in a way also. Add the inductor resistance to the
Amplifier Output Resistance and you can play around also.
I have to apologize for the misinformation, especially to f4ier!
(he knows why i write it here)
Yes, Subwoofer Simulator by our own F4ier is a great freeware program.
It can be downloaded from:
http://www.geocities.com/f4ier/speaker.htm
It can be downloaded from:
http://www.geocities.com/f4ier/speaker.htm
NOW I AM VERY CONFUSED!!!! 
You lost me... sometime between... everything.. 
What do I need to know to design a box using subsim? I get those values using speaker workshop, using the impedence jig? Perhaps this whole thing would be easier once I have the speakers.. but once I have them, it will be very few days until I go back to school..
Inductor resistance... AHH no.. I am using active crossovers.. right? Or have I missed the point again??
Peerless reccomends a crossover point of 2500Hz 12db/oct when using this tweeter and woofer.. should I go with that or not?
I think I am lost with the crossover thing.. I think I understand the box bit now.. I HOPE!!
You lost me... sometime between... everything.. What do I need to know to design a box using subsim? I get those values using speaker workshop, using the impedence jig? Perhaps this whole thing would be easier once I have the speakers.. but once I have them, it will be very few days until I go back to school.. Inductor resistance... AHH no..
I am using active crossovers.. right? Or have I missed the point again?? Peerless reccomends a crossover point of 2500Hz 12db/oct when using this tweeter and woofer.. should I go with that or not?
I think I am lost with the crossover thing.. I think I understand the box bit now..
I HOPE!! Hello Adelaide
Hello Adelaide & Skinnyboy in special!
Here in Sweden is 6:30 in the morning.
In the middle of Wintertime
But I am sure this is nothing like that over there ..
Our situation is almost upside down
In fact we live almost opposite to
eachother - on this planet.
Still we are joined together - by same interest
/halojoy - doing a morning meditation
Hello Adelaide & Skinnyboy in special!
Here in Sweden is 6:30 in the morning.
In the middle of Wintertime
But I am sure this is nothing like that over there ..Our situation is almost upside down
In fact we live almost opposite to
eachother - on this planet.
Still we are joined together - by same interest/halojoy - doing a morning meditation
Attachments
Greetings to Sweden!
Here are some beers, wine and about the same time!
Skinnyboy:
Don´t be afraid i will confuse you
As i understood you will be beamping or so but not with
active filters? Are you?
Give me the data of your Bass Chassis and i will try to
calculate for different inductors in front.
The 12dB thing is ok for sure!
Here are some beers, wine and about the same time!
Skinnyboy:
Don´t be afraid i will confuse you
As i understood you will be beamping or so but not with
active filters? Are you?
Give me the data of your Bass Chassis and i will try to
calculate for different inductors in front.
The 12dB thing is ok for sure!
Re: Hello Adelaide
The time is currently 4pm why are you up before midday?? Its currently HOT here.. supposed to be 39 tomorrow..
halojoy said:Hello Adelaide & Skinnyboy in special!
Here in Sweden is 6:30 in the morning.
In the middle of Wintertime
Our situation is almost upside down
In fact we live almost opposite to
eachother - on this planet.
/halojoy - doing a morning meditation
The time is currently 4pm why are you up before midday??
Its currently HOT here.. supposed to be 39 tomorrow..
Wombat said:Greetings to Sweden!
Here are some beers, wine and about the same time!
Skinnyboy:
Don´t be afraid i will confuse you
As i understood you will be beamping or so but not with
active filters? Are you?
Give me the data of your Bass Chassis and i will try to
calculate for different inductors in front.
The 12dB thing is ok for sure!
No, I am using active filters... the one on Rod Elliots site.. (I forget whats its called...)
I'm bored.... When will my speakers come?? I don't suppose today.. it is nearly 10pm... hmm.. perhpas not tomorrow either... that'd be Sunday... Hmm.. Even when they do some, I gotta go and pick em up... hmm... But not on teh day they come, cos I gotta get the money from dad first.. hmm.. so, the earliest is Tuesday... leaving me with about 7 days to test the speakers... good.. OKAY!! now that we have worked out that I am using active filtering (oops) what do I really need to know about the speakers in order to correctly tune the boxes?? give it to me straight man.. WHAT AM I DOING (I'm a "SNAG" Sensitive New Aged Guy, that, or a cry baby.. )
OKAY!! now that we have worked out that I am using active filtering (oops) what do I really need to know about the speakers in order to correctly tune the boxes?? give it to me straight man.. WHAT AM I DOING (I'm a "SNAG" Sensitive New Aged Guy, that, or a cry baby.. )The Speaker Workshop site has a full tutorial about building, measuring and tweaking a ported speaker and sub. I suggest you have a look:
http://www.speakerworkshop.com/SW/Project/Main.htm
Here's a brief summary about how I go about building a ported speaker.
1, Measure the impedance with Speaker Workshop. You should get a large peak at the drivers resonant frequency.
2, Add a known weight to the speaker cone and remeasure the impedance (I attach several coins to the cone using Blu Tak). The peak you had before should be lower in frequency. SW can can estimate the T/S parameters from these two impedance plots.
3, Input your measured T/S params into WinISD (Speaker Workshop also has an excellent box volume calculator). This will predict frequency response for different box volumes and tuning ratios.
4, Select a bass alignment that you like and build a box that size with extra capaciy to accommadate the driver, XO and port. Seal all box joins to prevent air leaks.
5, Cut your port tube about 20 -> 30% longer than predicted and fit to the baffle. Also fit the driver in the box.
6, Measure the driver impedance with Speaker Workshop. You should have a peak in the impedance plot as before but now with a large dip in the middle.
7, Trim a bit of length from your port and re-measure the impedance: the dip should move up in frequency. Repeat this process until the dip is at the tuning frequency given by WinISD.
8, Now design the crossover....
Nice one,
David.
http://www.speakerworkshop.com/SW/Project/Main.htm
Here's a brief summary about how I go about building a ported speaker.
1, Measure the impedance with Speaker Workshop. You should get a large peak at the drivers resonant frequency.
2, Add a known weight to the speaker cone and remeasure the impedance (I attach several coins to the cone using Blu Tak). The peak you had before should be lower in frequency. SW can can estimate the T/S parameters from these two impedance plots.
3, Input your measured T/S params into WinISD (Speaker Workshop also has an excellent box volume calculator). This will predict frequency response for different box volumes and tuning ratios.
4, Select a bass alignment that you like and build a box that size with extra capaciy to accommadate the driver, XO and port. Seal all box joins to prevent air leaks.
5, Cut your port tube about 20 -> 30% longer than predicted and fit to the baffle. Also fit the driver in the box.
6, Measure the driver impedance with Speaker Workshop. You should have a peak in the impedance plot as before but now with a large dip in the middle.
7, Trim a bit of length from your port and re-measure the impedance: the dip should move up in frequency. Repeat this process until the dip is at the tuning frequency given by WinISD.
8, Now design the crossover....
Nice one,
David.
4th order Linkwitz-Riley
2nd and 4th order (12dB & 24dB) Linkwitz-Riley
are very good filter.
They have a good phase response.
Passive is 12dB Linkwitz-Riley probably the most
used filter in the world.
--------------------------------
When will we ever hear about
the 12dB SkinnyBoy filter
or
the 2nd order Halojoy filter
----------------------------------------------------------
Mister Linkwitz - Homepage
About Siegfried Linkwitz:
-------------
Fun:
Windsurfing, audio design, live music, recording, downhill skiing, reading, hiking, traveling
-------------
Home front:
Married '61 - my wife's acceptance of my speaker designs is very important to me - daughter, son, granddaughter
-------------
Recent reading:
David R. Hawkins, Power vs. Force - The Hidden Determinants of Human Behavior
Scott D. Snyder, Active Noise Control Primer
Guenter Grass, Mein Jahrhundert (My Century)
That is alright.SkinnyBoy said:
2nd and 4th order (12dB & 24dB) Linkwitz-Riley
are very good filter.
They have a good phase response.
Passive is 12dB Linkwitz-Riley probably the most
used filter in the world.
--------------------------------
When will we ever hear about
the 12dB SkinnyBoy filter
or
the 2nd order Halojoy filter
----------------------------------------------------------
Mister Linkwitz - Homepage
About Siegfried Linkwitz:
-------------
Fun:
Windsurfing, audio design, live music, recording, downhill skiing, reading, hiking, traveling
-------------
Home front:
Married '61 - my wife's acceptance of my speaker designs is very important to me - daughter, son, granddaughter
-------------
Recent reading:
David R. Hawkins, Power vs. Force - The Hidden Determinants of Human Behavior
Scott D. Snyder, Active Noise Control Primer
Guenter Grass, Mein Jahrhundert (My Century)
Attachments
Thankyou very much daatkins for your help..
Thankyou too very much halojoy for your input..
I have a problem with step 6..
The speaker boxes will be at school.. My computer will be at home... I suppose I will have to wait until I get the boxes home to truely finish them.. Which means I want want to mount the drivers in the box either... which means I will be marked for speaker boxes without speakers.. lol, no problem.. The drivers cos me too much to take to school anyway.. I thought it would be fun to finish the speakers fully while at school, then take an amp along with me, and PLAY SOME MUSIC!! lol
Thankyou too very much halojoy for your input..
I have a problem with step 6..
The speaker boxes will be at school..
My computer will be at home... I suppose I will have to wait until I get the boxes home to truely finish them.. Which means I want want to mount the drivers in the box either... which means I will be marked for speaker boxes without speakers.. lol, no problem.. The drivers cos me too much to take to school anyway.. I thought it would be fun to finish the speakers fully while at school, then take an amp along with me, and PLAY SOME MUSIC!! lol
Hi SkinnyBoy,SkinnyBoy said:
The tweeter you mentioned is the WA10 with ferrofluid. One advice, but maybe it’s too late
, go for the one WITHOUT ferrofluid: This one. I have used these ones many times and they sound way better than the ones with ferrofluid. And yes this 35 EU costing tweeter can match with ones costing many times more.- Status
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