Zaph's BAMTM vs PE Dayton Reference MTM

[saabracer23]

Hello, is there anyone out there who has heard both of these systems? Is the dayton system worth the extra money? I know that the BAMTM has the superior tweeter. I have been wanting to play around with the RS line ever since they first came out. I have heard many good things about the BAMTM. So now a decision has to be made. I did a search and could not seem to find anything. Any input on this would be great thank you.

Dan

[cjd]

Uh, what Reference MTM are you looking at? I'm not familiar with any that use an inferior tweeter to the Seas TBFC/G...

Regardless, I know of at least one person that went from the Dayton aluminums in the BAMTM to RS180's and is very glad he did. Can't say much beyond that as I don't have personal experience with the standard aluminums, just the Reference series.

Also, crossover makes a huge difference. If you grab the Dr. K's PE has posted, you may find they sound worse were you to compare... all in the crossover. Zaph does excellent work.

C

[joe carrow]

I second what CJD says- in this case it's all in the crossover. I can think of at least four different Dayton Reference MTMs with various tweeters and crossovers. The one listed on Parts Express is nowhere near the top of my list for probable quality.

Are you on a tight budget? The BAMTM will give most any commercial offering in its price range a run for its money. The RS180s, if done right, can compete with truly expensive gear.

[sdclc126]

I am (was) very interested in Dr. K's MTM - cjd, can you say specifically what the shortcomings are in the crossover? Do you have thoughts on how to improve it? And I'd really like to substitute in the SEAS 27TBFC/G tweeter - highpass suggestions?

[sreten]

http://www.rjbaudio.com/RS180MTM/rs180-rs28-mtm.html

/sreten.

[cjd]

Yeah, Roman has looked at all the crossover variants for the RS180/RS28A driver combo in an MTM. There are a whole mess of options over at HTGuide in the DIY section. I think the PE box is undersized for them too (ported anyhow). I used this trio as the mids/tweeter in a 3-way.

The TBFC/G and my ears don't mix so well (it's an excellent tweeter despite that), but the RS28A is superb. I've also used the TDFC with the RS150.

C

[sdclc126]

Thanks Sreten & cjd - lots of info on RJB. I do like the idea of the 2.5 way, TMM too - kind of what I was looking for.

His Daedalus design is also intriguing - wonder if anyone has any thoughts on that one.

I've already purchased the 27TBFC/Gs, so they're goin' in whatever I end up with. I don't know anything about the Dayton tweeter - I just know Zaph's assessment of the SEAS - would love to see a comparison. cjd - guess you've at least done a subjective side-by-side?

[sreten]

Originally posted by sdclc126
Thanks Sreten & cjd - lots of info on RJB. I do like the idea of the 2.5 way, TMM too - kind of what I was looking for.

His Daedalus design is also intriguing - wonder if anyone has any thoughts on that one.

I've already purchased the 27TBFC/Gs so they're goin' in whatever I end up with. I don't know anything about the Dayton tweeter - I just know Zaph's assessment of the SEAS - would love to see a comparison. cjd - guess you've at least done a subjective side-by-side?

Hi,

http://www.rjbaudio.com/Audiofiles/FRDtools.html

As he also provides the files for his own designs for the above
substituting the 27TBFC/Gs into one of them should not be too
painful. If you lose the treble 10uF the TMM c/o looks good.

The 3-ways are less sensitive than the TMM, but are
an easier load and will have deeper bass than the TMM.
I like the Daedalus - certainly consider it a great choice.
Tweeter substitution shoud not be difficult.

I'd go TMM sealed + sub, or 3-way if no sub.

/sreten.

[sdclc126]

Thanks Sreten - I highly respect your input. Now it's kind of a toss-up but I do like 3-ways if well executed - they've always felt like the "complete" speaker and I'm partial to floorstanders.

I already have a sub - with the rare Peerless 8" XLS no less (purchased from Zaph on eBay), but of course it's active and also in a larger box, so I can adjust it for the very low end and attenuate the gain if nec. to balance with 3-way mains. I'd keep the mains sealed but eventually I'd like to dispense with a separate sub altogether.

I was seriously looking at the BAMTM originally but I really wanted to try the RS woofers with their more sophisticated motor design (and cool-looking phase plug) - it's just been a matter of finding the right crossover design that will bring out their best. Certainly a bigger challenge than the DAs.

At least now I've got it narrowed down to two possibilities.
If I ever get the darn things built I'll post a review.

[cjd]

Any design using the TDFC or TBFC/G and not compensating for the top octave should allow you to interchange the tweeters.

Anything with the RS28A will require a completely different tweeter network.

The RS28A and the TDFC are very similar, though the RS28A is slightly more analytical I think. Zaph has numbers on the RS28A. If you're pushing it low, it's slightly less consistent. TBFC/G I haven't compared to the RS28A directly, just the TDFC, where it again seems a tad more analytical. And makes me cringe after a little while.

My 3-ways probably would negate any use that "sub" would have...

You lose sensitivity in the Daedalus...