How do my JBL4412a speakers compare..... - diyAudio
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Old 4th March 2007, 06:42 AM   #1
Foxx510 is offline Foxx510  Australia
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Default How do my JBL4412a speakers compare.....

Just wondering how my JBL 4412a speakers compare to something I could build for $2000AUD ($1550USD) using modern components and a well known modern DIY design or kit. I like the punch and robustness of my JBL's but I want something that sounds "bigger"and more involving. The JBLs have a very narrow sweet spot, and I always know there is a speaker there. I want the speakers to dissapear. They need to be able to play loud and have some punch though also, this is a must.
Any input is appreciated.

Thanks
Adam
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Old 4th March 2007, 04:07 PM   #2
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for 2000.00 you should have no problem finding great speakers.consider a kit and check out the many quality site out there like.
http://www.zaphaudio.com/
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/
there are lots more,just do alittle searching
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Old 4th March 2007, 08:00 PM   #3
Foxx510 is offline Foxx510  Australia
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Thanks for that. I will check them out. I guess my question is will the current good DIY/Kit speakers significantly outperform my 4412a's?

Thanks
Adam
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Old 4th March 2007, 11:11 PM   #4
MadMutt is offline MadMutt  Australia
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I would be very tempted to have a play with a new xover first.
Thats whats letting these speakers down.

Have a look at Troel's site to see what even older jbl's are capable of doing.

If your not concerned about resale value I'd be doing a new cabinet and doing a xover from scratch.
Cabinet and xover have never been jbl's strong point.

EDIT.
A replacement might outperform them, depends on what you get.
I have troels Ekta's and they do sound different to jbl's (15"pro with compression mid and slot tweeter) but better, hmmm, can't say their better, just different.
And for reference I haven't done a 'proper' xover for the 150ltr jbl's yet.
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Old 4th March 2007, 11:40 PM   #5
Foxx510 is offline Foxx510  Australia
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Thanks for that, his site is down at the moment so I could only view bits and pieces from the google cache. So would it be possible to get a significant improvement with a different cabnet and maybe a behringer active crossover setup? I know these are hard questions to answer without listening tests. I have little money to invest here as I am currently unable to work due to illness. The cabnets on these have always concerned me, they arent well made at all. The bass driver however is a different story. Beefy! I'm not adverse to a different cabnet design altogether, size is not an issue here. Could a TL cab work better maybe..... I still have a lot to learn here, so forgive me if my questions seem a bit naive.

Thanks
Adam
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Old 5th March 2007, 12:44 AM   #6
Foxx510 is offline Foxx510  Australia
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These are the TS parameters for the 128H LF driver(from this list
TS param

modelFS QTS QMS QES VAS EFF PE XMAX RE LE SD BI MMS FLUX
128H 20 0.24 7 0.25 280.4 0.86 100 7.87 5.7 0.6 0.053 16 90 1.07
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Old 5th March 2007, 11:15 AM   #7
EspenE is offline EspenE  Norway
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Quote:
Originally posted by Foxx510
...... I guess my question is will the current good DIY/Kit speakers significantly outperform my 4412a's?

Thanks
Adam
I'm not so sure. The JBL 4412a is IMO a nice speaker. Most modern DIY/kits will sound different, that's for sure - probably smoother and somewhat less colored than the 4412, but also with less punch and power.

If you select to modify your 4412's, a new and better braced cabinet would be nice. The 128H is a very good and sturdy unit. In a 70L reflex cabinet tuned to 30 Hz it will give strong bass down to 30 Hz, excursion limited to about 100dB SPL @ 30 Hz. This compares very favorably to today's usual DIY/Kit speakers, with usually has only 7 or 8" bass units. You will need subwoofers or speakers with bigger (or two) units to compete with 4412 in the bass/SPL demartment.

Also keep in mind that your 4412 has about 90dB efficiency (which is quite high). Most of today's DIY/Kit speakers are less efficient that this - putting more demands on your amplifier.

I don't think you will be able to improve significantly on the 4412's with crossover modifications, better crossover parts or active Behringer-based crossover.

IMO the 104h midrange and (to a lesser extent) the 052Ti tweeter are the weak points of the 4412. Better to replace them with more modern and better units - for example the Seas MCA15RCY and the 27TFFC. But then again: you are on your own on crossover design, and you really needs some measuring equipment.

If you not feel up to this, it would probably be safer to go with a documented design. Check out zaphaudio or troelsgravesen.dk.

Espen
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Old 5th March 2007, 07:24 PM   #8
MadMutt is offline MadMutt  Australia
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Troels tried a 12" jbl (123 ?) in his wide baffle and rather liked it from memory.
I was looking at doing this myself, but decided to keep my 4311's original (for the moment).
In a 1 on 1 show down the sspeak 9500 eats the jbl le25 (paper tweeter) for breaky.
BUT in a system with a proper xover I think the difference will be less.

Don't think I'd go active with them.
As a start I'd pull the bass driver a see what the xover is first.
Then if you have the gear, try active and playing with xover points etc.
Troels suggests around 80 ltr for the 123/2213 and xover of about 800.

I have only heard the jbl Titanium tweeters briefly so cant comment on them, although a (now closed) well respected jbl dealer here never liked them.
He was comparing them against b&w's mind you.....

If you've got the money and time, make an 80 ltr ported and go from there.
I think they'd be worth it.
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Old 5th March 2007, 08:34 PM   #9
EspenE is offline EspenE  Norway
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For details on the 4412A , check out http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Stu...es/4412ALR.pdf

(And MadMutt: the 4311 is here: http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Stu...ries/4311B.pdf)

The same heritage - but really two different beasts.

Espen
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Old 5th March 2007, 09:09 PM   #10
Foxx510 is offline Foxx510  Australia
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Thanks for all the replies. It is a hard call to make, as I really love the clean SPL these things make, and I think I would miss it if my next speakers didn't have it. I guess what I'm thinking is that these drivers were designed in the 90s, surely things have come a long way since then. I'm sure I could get more detail in the mids and highs with something more modern. I think I would be out of my depth modifying these so I will wait until I have heard something that I like before moving on to a new system. What I will do in the meantime is set them up in my spare room where I can move them away from the walls and get them closer together, I think the current positioning could be hurting the imaging a lot. Some old Realistic MACH ONEs will have to do duties for everyday listening and movies for now.

One speaker I am very interested in is this one from IPL acoustics It is a big call buying something not having heard it first though! I just get the feeling I would like it for some reason...

Thanks
Adam
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