The "Elsinore Project" Thread

I think that gradually that will change, a gradual but definite increase in the popularity of waveguides is happening.
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***Hello Joe! I continue to study your description of the creation of the Elsinore. I would gladly repeat this project, but I can not do it. Expensive for me! I try to understand the algorithm for creating such a loudspeaker and make it on other drivers. However, I do not understand how to calculate the depth of the waveguide. How do I pre-calculate the tweeter offset? Help please advice!
Thank you!
Oleg
 
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That looks alot like Bonded Logic’s Ultratouch, Not easy to make evenly skinnier.

This is either 3.5” or 2” thick: https://www.homedepot.com/p/UltraTo...tion-Multi-Purpose-Roll-60301-16482/202709974

dave

dave:

An interesting alternative. I would note that the UltraTouch product from Home Depot is about twice as expensive as the Eco-Core material from Meniscus (at the single pack price; they are about the same price per square inch until you take height into consideration). On the other hand, it might be easier to work with UltraTouch by starting with a single 2" layer and only adding another layer (or partial layer) if needed.

By the way, I'm honored by your response (you do this for a living; I'm an interloper). Do you believe UltraTouch qualifies as "low density"? If not, would a thinner layer of Ultratouch have the same effect as a 3" layer of the bonded Dacron?

Regards,
Scott
 
Wife and I still can't decide. Probably just a high gloss paint, either black or a bright colour.
What screws are people using for the drivers?
I found some 8g x 38mm pan head in black on ebay, does that sound about right? It looks like the SB drivers use a non-countersunk screw.


hi rampage101
I used M4 buttom head socket screws with T-nuts for the drivers. 38mm for the tweeters (wave guide plus MDF) and 20mm for the others. These screws match the ones joe supplies with the wave guides. There are photos of these in post #2063
 
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Joe & Co.:

I'd be grateful for feedback on my crossover layout for an Elsinore project. The crossover will be mounted on a board measuring 8.5" by 26.5" (21.6cm x 67.3cm), which provides plenty of landscape. In this design L1 and L3 are oriented the same way and will be about 14" (35.5cm) apart, with L2 about mid-way between them as shown. I'm hoping that the orientation of L5 will not be an issue.

One note: yes, I will switch the positions of the 0.47uF cap and the 6R8 resistor.

All guidance appreciated!

Regards,
Scott
 

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Those distances look fine to me. Most crossovers I see have them much closer than that. How's the cabinets coming along?

Joe & Co.:

I'd be grateful for feedback on my crossover layout for an Elsinore project. The crossover will be mounted on a board measuring 8.5" by 26.5" (21.6cm x 67.3cm), which provides plenty of landscape. In this design L1 and L3 are oriented the same way and will be about 14" (35.5cm) apart, with L2 about mid-way between them as shown. I'm hoping that the orientation of L5 will not be an issue.

One note: yes, I will switch the positions of the 0.47uF cap and the 6R8 resistor.

All guidance appreciated!

Regards,
Scott
 
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Those distances look fine to me. Most crossovers I see have them much closer than that. How's the cabinets coming along?

irext:

This project involves four pairs of Elsinore loudspeakers. Three of the people on the team will do the fit-out of the cabinets and the fourth person is a friend-of-a-friend who happens to own a high end furniture manufacturing facility not far from us. The deal was his team would build the cabinets and the other three of us would do the rest. I have been fretting over this project for over four years, getting the group organized, massaging the BOM and managing a somewhat dysfunctional process, but the results should be worth it. I spent a considerable amount of time with the factory owner's engineer working on the CAD design for the cabinets (there were some tweaks made to Joe's design), and they look great. Photos, our BOM and the CAD drawings will be posted in due course.

Regards,
Scott
 
So I've finally made some more progress, including my first (very thrown together) listen.
I've had a few dramas along the way, including putting a screwdriver through the surround on one of the woofers :( Good thing I did the bulk buy and got 10.
So, my main issue is mounting the tweeter and waveguide. Am I missing something or am I supposed to make relief holes for the machine screws that hold the tweeters to the waveguide? At present they sit in the tweeter recess in the sub front panel and so it protrudes about 6mm.j
 
They must be flush to maintain the phase alignment. My Elsinores have the older style MDF waveguides so I can't really comment on the new mounting. I'm sure other builders using the current waveguides have experienced the same issue and can advise. You must have bled when the screwdriver slipped. Should be repairable though.
 
They must be flush to maintain the phase alignment...

There is another reason, the exposed edge will also show measurable and undesirable ripples in the response. For example, the classic Vifa XT25 have an amazing on-axis flat response when the 4mm edge is flush on the test panel. When not recessing it flush and letting it stand 4mm proud, the response is changed to a huge degree. So it needs to be within 1mm at least. The same can be said about the waveguide, there must be as reasonably smooth transition to the front panel plane.

Cheers, Joe
 
Relief holes

So I've finally made some more progress, including my first (very thrown together) listen.
I've had a few dramas along the way, including putting a screwdriver through the surround on one of the woofers :( Good thing I did the bulk buy and got 10.
So, my main issue is mounting the tweeter and waveguide. Am I missing something or am I supposed to make relief holes for the machine screws that hold the tweeters to the waveguide? At present they sit in the tweeter recess in the sub front panel and so it protrudes about 6mm.j




I drilled relief hole to accept the nut behind the tweeter and wave guide assembly and applied a mastic to seal the tweeter airtight in the speaker box. Can be seen in photo in post #1980
 
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A quick update

Hello again all,
Just s little update. As i read some year ago that the Elsinore sounded even better placed a bit above the floor i made myself a small building project. New NEWCLASSD mono blocks in mdf as footings on my mk5 Elsinores. And yes it worked out well. And yes the newly home made four twinned signal cables (and also new short speaker cables) a la Svalander audio are working over my expectations (as always).

Cheers
//H
 

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And Joe, I am still waiting for the Mk7 to appear as a list of components and drawings :)

Alas, it was on the cards, but the new driver which I saw in November last year when visiting SB Acoustics in Herning, Denmark, and it looked very promising. I actually held pre-production sample in my hands, SB17NRX2C35-8 (note the extra 2). But now that is is available, and looking at the T-S Parameters, it is not suitable. The mass of the cone is higher, the sensitivity is lower and the Qts higher. The box would need to be redesigned, not going to do that.

The lower sensitivity goes against one of the most basic philosophical aspects, that the voice coils inside the drivers should run as cool as possible. The 2dB difference is a game non-changer as the new driver will run 50-60% hotter.

So no Mk7 yet and not promising that there will be one. But one should never say never?
 
So no Mk7 yet and not promising that there will be one. But one should never say never?

That's a drag! ;-)
I am running out of projects, and my two oldest son's are in Munich and Sthlm moving into bigger apartments and ready to receive some nice speakers (Mk5s for example :) ). But "never" is a loong time.

SIMPLIFIED BUILD OF BOX
I made some smaller changes in the layout of the pieces for the box-build that simplifies the build to some extent if someone is interested now. Or for you all to remember for newcombers here in the future. Just let me know and I hand them over to anyone who's interested.