Yes I do. I was sceptical about getting improvement with lowering Fb from 35 to 33Hz, but this definitely worth the effort. There is more impact on base notes and this is the way I like to hear them.
Well done.
Just a comment re length and its pros and cons. No doubt that using smaller diameter, you can tune lower more easily. So smaller diameter translates into shorter length, and larger diameter means longer length. But you don't want to make the diameter too small or the peak velocity in the port goes up dramatically, making the port more potentially noisy. In bad cases, when power is wound up, this can lead to the dreaded "chuffing" sounds.
There are programs (WinISD comes to mind) that allows you to play around with various diameters and lengths and shows the different velocity in Mach, which means that the peak velocity of 1 Mach = the speed of sound. You want to stay well below that. You also have to specify the power input, as it goes up with increased power.
I use my Elsinores with 30 Watts amps right now. With 88mm internal diameter and let us say 100mm is needed to get 33 hertz, then Mach will not exceed 0.17 with 30W and have some headroom, Mach of 0.32 at 100W
In fact at 100 Watt Please keep in mind that peak velocity is only achieved if full power of the amp is concentrated at Fb (or 33 Hertz in this case), so it does happen a lot of times. But you just want to have a safe margin.
In the Elsinores I wanted a decent compromise, I didn't go for flared ports as that is not DIY friendly, and I always wanted to make the Elsinores as DIY friendly as possible, and flexible when damping can be a little off, etc. It was only the Waveguide that sorta got in the way. But there was no easy way around that one.
Now all you guys out there should check what your Fb is - it is not that hard to do.
Maybe we can get a consensus that in most cases we do need to make the vent/port 20mm longer?
That is one of the beauties of DIY.
Cheers, Joe
european damping
hi,
i consider building these loud speakers, and i would be interested in sharing informations about european sourcing of the parts, and also financialy participating in an european wave guide serie
for the damping, i found this in france :
Amortissement interne des enceintes acoustiques
they say the damping will work for medium hight but not for the low frequecy
dondiba
hi,
i consider building these loud speakers, and i would be interested in sharing informations about european sourcing of the parts, and also financialy participating in an european wave guide serie
for the damping, i found this in france :
Amortissement interne des enceintes acoustiques
they say the damping will work for medium hight but not for the low frequecy
dondiba
The WG project is very slowly going forward. At this point we are aiming for aWG outline the same as for the mid and bases. That to get just one template for the milling.
When it comes to damping the investigations with two proffesional speaker producers have ended up in two options. Either just all soft glasfibee house insulation or some lambs wool at the far back of the box, covered with insulation. Polyester have been tested seriously in a big test here in Sweden years ago and not found usable at all (didn't know about it until just recently).
I think that makes it easier for all of us as we haven't found any good stuff yet.
You are welcome to join in. I have some fairly good discount at europeaudio if you looking for a good vendor.
Sloooowly getting forward.
The drawings for mold is progressing and are discussed from different perspectives.
Now we have also decided to design it with the same outline as the mids&bases. A little bit more work but will ease up the diy work for others. Also we are using just 25 mm material, and will reduce the milling for future project by a different design of the mid section baffel.
So what is your latest length of the pipe, something like 110mm for the 33Hz?
I agree. I think the 33hz tuning works the best. A least for my space and listening preferences.
I tried everything from 31~32 Hz to 36hz and found the 33hz tuning the most subjectively satisfying. For my particular box construction, which was a few millimeters short in height, I added 15mm. So, I think it is most important to try to either measure your results or listen to the various lengths for a period of time to make a final decision.
The lenght of the pipe is now 105mm, ID is 90mm. The temporary solution is not elegant but was very quick to implement
Attachments
While I am not a big fan, I stumbled across a Jason Mraz "beautiful mess" concert on Palladia.
The Elsinore waveguides love that mix! The ambience retrieval is pretty amazing. Huge, big soundstage, especially in depth.
I hold no responsibility for the stylistic content nor performance. But, it sure sounds impressive. ;-)
The Elsinore waveguides love that mix! The ambience retrieval is pretty amazing. Huge, big soundstage, especially in depth.
I hold no responsibility for the stylistic content nor performance. But, it sure sounds impressive. ;-)
If you are using 90 mm stormwater pvc pipe for the port you can buy from plumbing supplies a slip sleeve which is used for joining 90 mm pipe. It slips over the pipe and is a very snug fit which would make adjusting port length quite easy. You would only need to remove the lower driver to gain access and once a length is decided use pvc pipe glue to fix it in place. I have to admit i,ve done no testing of my Elsinores as i very much like the way they sound straight off the bat but i will get around to doing so and port length may need a tweek.
Elsinore has moved home from the Carpenter...
Well aged Audio lambs wool from the late 70s come in handy (and some leftover Aqusto-Q, the hoppest speaker damping material at that time).
Filling the rear part with the wool, very airy/fluffy. I might stuff the "rear compartment" from the top and 75% down with the "fluffy-wool" to start with, for beginning the measuring.
Having fun...
Well aged Audio lambs wool from the late 70s come in handy (and some leftover Aqusto-Q, the hoppest speaker damping material at that time).
Filling the rear part with the wool, very airy/fluffy. I might stuff the "rear compartment" from the top and 75% down with the "fluffy-wool" to start with, for beginning the measuring.
Having fun...
Attachments
ID 96mm cardboard tube is the closest now.... For rolling up wall-to-wall-carpets originally. If i am bnot finding anything else i will start with 120mm length, just to figure out how it reacts with the bigger dia.
Hi i'm gathering the parts for the JR-Mini but i would like to build curved sides box.
Can i mount the peerless the other way?? Like this-
http://www.diyaudio.rs/topic/4001-male-hifi-kutije/page-2
Thanks
Can i mount the peerless the other way?? Like this-
http://www.diyaudio.rs/topic/4001-male-hifi-kutije/page-2
Thanks
Last edited:
I've been out of the loop for some time, but Joel had told me Joe Ras was working on the Hamlets. While I'd love a pair of Elsinores, I don't have the room for them in my modest house and getting my wife to agree to a pair of Zen OBs was hard enough... But I do have room for the Hamlets in my mancave area of the basement.
I have a quad of the drivers and Joel's round waveguides. Are the cabinet dimensions above firm? I know Joe is working on the crossovers, but if the cabinet dimensions are set, then I'll have my carpenter build the boxes and get them veneered or wrapped in leather while I wait for the CO to be finalized.
Also, since I'm saving costs on the cabinets and the reduced driver count, would the more expensive tweeter be a worthwhile upgrade or is the improved performance just not worth the nearly doubled cost? I would be listening to them near field most of the time too, if that will influence the decision. The amp will be a Musical Machine and Yamaha CR620 receiver; with the MM being my main amp.
T.I.A.
Playing along with the WinISD Beta 0.44 ended up with a "simulated" box volume of 101 litres for the 90x105mm vent and 33Hz. For us in Sweden (and maybe otherwise) we can instead choose 2 pcs of 68x145mm drain pipes instead, to start measuring from. Which also creates a good 0,12 mach. So it will be. a month search for a deasant pipe is over.
Happy Easter
I have been experimenting with the port lengths .( No measurements, just using my ears)
What would be the expected outcome of reducing the port length below the standard 80mm length?
My ears may be playing tricks on me but im am hearing a perceived improvement with the tube removed altogether !
Still great bass and very clean highs.
What would be the expected outcome of reducing the port length below the standard 80mm length?
My ears may be playing tricks on me but im am hearing a perceived improvement with the tube removed altogether !
Still great bass and very clean highs.
EU-version almost ready to be measured
Almost ready to start measuring the "EU-version" with 2x 75mm (ID68) plumbing pipes. Wool in the back compartment, glass wool on the front compartment walls and on all of the stiffening panel (reflections should not be an issue here). 160mm will be the start, as the pre-calculation said 145mm. The pipe holes was deliberately drilled sliightly to big and adjusted with a few layers of print paper strips around the hole to get it perfectly match, round and smooth. Glued with wallpaper glue. That would make it easier to change and adjust the pipes in and out. Just some small ideas.
Almost ready to start measuring the "EU-version" with 2x 75mm (ID68) plumbing pipes. Wool in the back compartment, glass wool on the front compartment walls and on all of the stiffening panel (reflections should not be an issue here). 160mm will be the start, as the pre-calculation said 145mm. The pipe holes was deliberately drilled sliightly to big and adjusted with a few layers of print paper strips around the hole to get it perfectly match, round and smooth. Glued with wallpaper glue. That would make it easier to change and adjust the pipes in and out. Just some small ideas.
Last edited: