I think as always - NOT!
But I can see no response from more listenings with and without the conjugate link C4/R3/L5 ---- What´s the current (haha) situation Joe & Bolserst???
Sitting with a new drawing to finnish to put up here for all us (Swedish&other) newbies that need THE latest drawing. Also try to include some late comments about quality and choice of components.
But I can see no response from more listenings with and without the conjugate link C4/R3/L5 ---- What´s the current (haha) situation Joe & Bolserst???
Sitting with a new drawing to finnish to put up here for all us (Swedish&other) newbies that need THE latest drawing. Also try to include some late comments about quality and choice of components.
I really want to build a pair of Elsinore because:
designer is a qualified man
reviews are positive
enclouser is simple to build and effective
they worth the money
I cant build a pair because:
I live in a poor country in which 2000USD is income of about a year of hardworking
I wish I could build a pair for less than 2000 worthy dollars
designer is a qualified man
reviews are positive
enclouser is simple to build and effective
they worth the money
I cant build a pair
because:I live in a poor country in which 2000USD is income of about a year of hardworking
I wish I could build a pair for less than 2000 worthy dollars
Tnx.
I did trow in a question before about those three components. I guess You liked to remove them and JoeR liked them still there but with the 2 new values, 33uF still the same. Haven´t heard from anyone tried comparing without and with the new values.
JoeR - is it about the "current purity" you want them there, or is there a change of sound?
Fitting of Waveguide to Element
Looking at the drawing of the waveguide and reading a vast number of post there seem to be a gap between the inside lower part of the waveguide hole and the element. A gap that partly (or all together in some posts) are filled with gaskets, rubber mass of different kinds.
Now when we are about to produce a mould for at least producing 4for sets of waveguides that are about to be built in Sweden right now, itwould be interesting to hear if there is a slight change that should be done to create "the perfect gap" with the waveguide solid towards the element to create one "solid piece"???
Suggestions anyone? Joel?
(B.t.w we haven´t ordered the elements yet. Hunting for rebates i EU now)
Looking at the drawing of the waveguide and reading a vast number of post there seem to be a gap between the inside lower part of the waveguide hole and the element. A gap that partly (or all together in some posts) are filled with gaskets, rubber mass of different kinds.
Now when we are about to produce a mould for at least producing 4for sets of waveguides that are about to be built in Sweden right now, itwould be interesting to hear if there is a slight change that should be done to create "the perfect gap" with the waveguide solid towards the element to create one "solid piece"???
Suggestions anyone? Joel?
(B.t.w we haven´t ordered the elements yet. Hunting for rebates i EU now)
The original had a pocket to alow the tweeter to mount to cabinet and waveguide over that.. The gasket thingy was to fill pocket and mount tweeter directly to the waveguide..
As for creating a gap at the vibrating element for a different sonic characteristic it has to be heard to be appreciated and then it becomes personal choice as I thought the gaped sound was very good and not wrong but ended up with no gap.. With no gap there's still a slight gap because of the slope in the tweeter plate face and this gap is filled with putty..
I was thinking about extending the projection and matching the tweeter slope but thought everything has to be perfect otherwise it could end up raised where the two mounting surfaced need to meet.. So putty made more sense if you know what I mean..
The element gaping gives a less rich and detailed controlled treble that has less room effect and gives good off axis listening soundsatge..
No gap is richer with more detail, hence more energy into the room.. Need to set up nearfield position more carefully and trap first reflections.. The farfield is really good when all the energy has distance to propagate..
My 2 cents on the gap
I forgot Joe changed the 3 components.. Must be something to it so have to try it out....
As for creating a gap at the vibrating element for a different sonic characteristic it has to be heard to be appreciated and then it becomes personal choice as I thought the gaped sound was very good and not wrong but ended up with no gap.. With no gap there's still a slight gap because of the slope in the tweeter plate face and this gap is filled with putty..
I was thinking about extending the projection and matching the tweeter slope but thought everything has to be perfect otherwise it could end up raised where the two mounting surfaced need to meet.. So putty made more sense if you know what I mean..
The element gaping gives a less rich and detailed controlled treble that has less room effect and gives good off axis listening soundsatge..
No gap is richer with more detail, hence more energy into the room.. Need to set up nearfield position more carefully and trap first reflections.. The farfield is really good when all the energy has distance to propagate..
My 2 cents on the gap
I forgot Joe changed the 3 components.. Must be something to it so have to try it out....
The original had a pocket to alow the tweeter to mount to cabinet and waveguide over that.. The gasket thingy was to fill pocket and mount tweeter directly to the waveguide..
My 2 cents on the gap
Would it be possible to descibe in a scetch how the 2-3 different positions of the (non)gap would look like with the current waveguide? As we have located at least one lathe (maybe more) closer than I thought (one of my friends job) that could do the job we might end up with different molds for different sound preferences.... (Off course we are back in the old days - work payment in, not carrots, but Wave guides
)We need to get the figures for the shrinking of the different materials - says my "lathe-friend"
Do you have any figures..... Still going for Carbon first? I have no idea of the different characteristics for the different plastics. "heavy" and stiff but not to stiff???
Is it possilbe to put color in all of them - if we like them to be f ex black?
I use a Mundorf Supreme 1.8 uF bypassed with a MKP-1837 0.01 uF on mine and I'm very satisfied with the result but I have not heard the Jentzen to compare.
I'd go for the Jantzen Superior Red 1.8uF - and only the RED. The others from Jantzen aren't as good.
Ok. I have read a little about the theories of having a smaller (and much better quality cap in parallell (By-passed I guess you call it) with the "supposed" one. I have seen a few in this thread done so too. What will the benefit be from Your perspective (petefrontiers)
OK. Red it is (chaper than many other Jantzens...)
The suggestion in the thread sum up to 2,0uF (Rifa et al) which most of the producers don´t offer. Should we add on a 0,22uF in parallell (or even a 0,22uF + a 0,01uF to acheive what has been said to be heard with a super small cap in place) (Joe)
Would it be possible to descibe in a scetch how the 2-3 different positions of the (non)gap would look like with the current waveguide? As we have located at least one lathe (maybe more) closer than I thought (one of my friends job) that could do the job we might end up with different molds for different sound preferences.... (Off course we are back in the old days - work payment in, not carrots, but Wave guides
I use the free google sketch up sometimes but for me to make a good representation will be hard..
The drawing is my waveguide now and the tweeter mounting plate mounts flush with the back of the waveguide.. The tweeter mounting plate diameter is slightly smaller than the back shelf diameter of the waveguide..
The projection is 0.1mm from touching the slope on the tweeter plate..
To create one's personal GAP up to say 1.5mm use spacers when mounting the tweeter..
BTW: The sound characteristics with a gap is whithout putty so there is an actual space.. Maybe the vibrations at domes large area are being trapped.
Also something to consider is if the woofers are sunk 4mm.. Mine are sunk so gapping 1.5mm puts the tweeter at 15.5mm from woofers.. If woofers are not sunk then gapping 1.5mm puts the tweeter 19.5mm from the woofers..
So I also be wondering if the others that enjoyed the gap have sunk or not sunk woofers.. Just mentioning this because the design alows for sinking the woofers 4mm and only affects Time Alignment inside 1.6m so that puts the tweeter(no gap) at 14mm behind woofers..
Joel
Attachments
I took the recipe on the capacitor test done by Tony Gee of humblehomemadehifi,com Humble Homemade Hifi Look at the bottom of the page to see the Vishay MKP1837 review. They cost nothing so I tried them. I've not heard the Mundorf cap without them yet. My pair of Elsinore are only a couple of weeks old so I will wait that the break in period is over before starting to play in the crossover if I feel I need to.
Ok. Good point. I just wait and see - or just order 4-5 pairs of Vishays in our current not yet processed order, and play myself...
Ok. So there is almost a perfect match. 0,1 mm is not much, just enough for some glue....
BUT, using spacers will create a little pocket between the wg and the tw, just not only a little gap. Making a wg with some other design of the lower inside part closest to the tw just create a small thin gap but no pocket so that will be something else than using spacers - and possibly a different sound. Hmm i guess i have to test when I finally get my pair going. Thanks for the info
Something I have missed in all the threads. Differently sunk woofers compared to case, and also compared to differently sunk tweeter. Why sink the woofers more into the case in the first place? Shouldn´t they be aligned with the front ? and the tweeter (incl the wg) measured in phase/time for the correct position behind the woofers?