They look brilliant. A collegue of mine is also in the process of building a pair of Elsinore,s and he was also looking at finishing in piano black. I will steer him in your direction if you don,t mind. Very nice work. It,s great to see so many different takes on finishing.
Looks stunning when it's done well and horrible if it isn't.
I think you have to be some kind of Sado-Masochist. LOL
Good luck - in the best sense of the word. I wish mine were like that too.
Cheers, Joe R.
Thanks for the complements.
And yep you need a spray booth at least and a down draft oven is best.
I tried in my shed with plastic everywhere, wet down the floor and used two pack with a very quick drying time and you still get dust particles. Its not bad but nothing compared to doing it properly using the right equipment.
A controlled environment is key.
Lots of sanding between coats 400 grade up to 1200+ then polishing with a cutting compound.
Cheers
And he will kill any of you who puts a scratch on them !!!
So it ala CSI - always wear gloves.
Cheers, Joe R.
JR Minis - Part 2
Here is the Crossover:
The following shows ON Axis response, impedance and impedance phase:
The increased output centered around 150Hz is primarily an artifact of mic proximity effect - so ignore.
While the negative phase is -50 degrees @ 3KHz, the impedance is still high at almost 10 Ohm. The impedance does not drop below 5 Ohm. The speaker is not hard to drive.
Let's take a look at the OFF Axis response:
It is actually smoother OFF Axis, but a bit more rolled off above 10KHz.
Now for a simulated 500Hz square wave:
Even though the tweeter is not connected in phase, the speaker remains phase coherrent up to a reasonably high frequency.
That's it!
Joe R.
I have 4 JR Mini boxes made up from my cabinet construction experiments and decided I want to complete them..
My question is can I use the Nomex HDS woofer without Crossover change?
Thanks, Joel
Rather than scrounge around trying to find the crossover schematic you have there, could you email or post it. The answer should be yes, but need to take into account that the HDS Nomex version is slightly more sensitive (and efficient, even though both is not always the case, here it is) and affects the level of the Tweeter, or else it will sound brighter than intended.
Cheers, Joe R.
I'm still looking for a pair in the upper Midwest; MN, ND, SD, IA, WI, IL.
A pair I can go listen to. I swore I'd never build a pair of passive speakers again but these have been bugging me for a long time.
I built a 2 way using the woofer and the Vifa D25 which I think was the first tweeter in the Elsinore. (yes/no?) and still like them. My teenager has them in his room.
Mike
A pair I can go listen to. I swore I'd never build a pair of passive speakers again but these have been bugging me for a long time.
I built a 2 way using the woofer and the Vifa D25 which I think was the first tweeter in the Elsinore. (yes/no?) and still like them. My teenager has them in his room.
Mike
Are you a dog person?
OK, here goes.
The Nomex only needs one of the LCRs, so omit 2.2uF/0.12mH/1R5 (C13, L14 and R15).
So that's a good start getting rid of three components. The Nomex has a smoother roll-off above the crossover and that is why it isn't needed.
Because the Nomex cone is lighter, the tonal balance will be affected. But due to the same motor and cone profile has a similar response shape, this is why we should be able to get away with it. Normally I would prefer to computer model it, but knowing both of these drivers well - we can get away with it, but you need to do a little work yourself... read on....
The Tweeter's output needs to be increased slightly. The R16 should be decreased in value, I would suggest trying 4R. The other component is the main series cap C0 - it may be worth adding a 0.33uF in parallel (bumping up the value slightly) to 4.3uF approx.
These two values should be adjusted by ear, but only changed by the minimum amount that you can get away with. Indeed listen to it with the previous values first and see if you find the Tweter's output a little dull. If so, then decrease R16 and increase C0 by ear.
That's it. Let me know how it goes.
Cheers, Joe R.
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I think the first tweeter in Elsinore was XT25
I'm building Elsinore Cabs for someone I didn't know until he bought a used cd player from me I had placed on CAM and this is one of things he said.
"Elsinore is truly an amazing speaker.....Soundstage and Image 2nd to none."
Sorry, no help for you to hear them but thought I would mention it
Joel
Are you a dog person?
OK, here goes.
The Nomex only needs one of the LCRs, so omit 2.2uF/0.12mH/1R5 (C13, L14 and R15).
So that's a good start getting rid of three components. The Nomex has a smoother roll-off above the crossover and that is why it isn't needed.
Because the Nomex cone is lighter, the tonal balance will be affected. But due to the same motor and cone profile has a similar response shape, this is why we should be able to get away with it. Normally I would prefer to computer model it, but knowing both of these drivers well - we can get away with it, but you need to do a little work yourself... read on....
The Tweeter's output needs to be increased slightly. The R16 should be decreased in value, I would suggest trying 4R. The other component is the main series cap C0 - it may be worth adding a 0.33uF in parallel (bumping up the value slightly) to 4.3uF approx.
These two values should be adjusted by ear, but only changed by the minimum amount that you can get away with. Indeed listen to it with the previous values first and see if you find the Tweter's output a little dull. If so, then decrease R16 and increase C0 by ear.
That's it. Let me know how it goes.
Cheers, Joe R.
Thats really good. Thank You
I'm aiming for 3 for upstairs TV above fireplace, one is for center
2 for work room in basement
2 for stepson for xmas(I mean cabs he buys components)
Two woofers at home, 4 dogs total when I sit others
Joel
Are you a dog person?
OK, here goes.
The Nomex only needs one of the LCRs, so omit 2.2uF/0.12mH/1R5 (C13, L14 and R15).
So that's a good start getting rid of three components. The Nomex has a smoother roll-off above the crossover and that is why it isn't needed.
Because the Nomex cone is lighter, the tonal balance will be affected. But due to the same motor and cone profile has a similar response shape, this is why we should be able to get away with it. Normally I would prefer to computer model it, but knowing both of these drivers well - we can get away with it, but you need to do a little work yourself... read on....
The Tweeter's output needs to be increased slightly. The R16 should be decreased in value, I would suggest trying 4R. The other component is the main series cap C0 - it may be worth adding a 0.33uF in parallel (bumping up the value slightly) to 4.3uF approx.
These two values should be adjusted by ear, but only changed by the minimum amount that you can get away with. Indeed listen to it with the previous values first and see if you find the Tweter's output a little dull. If so, then decrease R16 and increase C0 by ear.
That's it. Let me know how it goes.
Cheers, Joe R.
"Because the Nomex cone is lighter, the tonal balance will be affected."
Can I expect it to be similar to Elsinore? Elsinore is very organic so I'm thinking its partly related to Nomex.. Should the Organic factor go up with the Nomex mini??
Joel
Hi Mike,
I'm in Champaign IL, not close, but if you make it down this way I will be happy to let you hear my Elsinore Mk V's.
My listening room is not great and my system consists of a DIY 12B4 pre, and old EICO HF70 amp, with good CD source. But the Elsinores are the best speakers I've had, including a pair of Soundlab electrostats.
Kind regards,
Francois
Joel,
Where did you get this JR Mini design you posted in #1306? I've searched but can't find the original. Please help.
I bought 2 extra Elsinore woofers and had been waiting for Joe's center design. Is this it?
Francois
P.S. The waveguides I bought from you look great and perform very well. Thanks again.
I wish it was that simple. I would have designed them somewhat diffferently now. Keep in mind, no Waveguide, and forn now I cannot see me designing speakers without Waveguides, knowing what I know now.
It's not that they won't be good.
Cheers, Joe
Hi Mike
You say you like active speakers. And I agree, all other things being equal, there are significant advantages going that way. But the real advantage is barely mentioned at all, and it's at the heart of the Elsinore approach: The amplifier is a "voltage" device, dynamic drivers are "current" devices. Conventional Multi-Way speaker systems - and may I use a rather unscientic expression - the current gets scrambled. To put it bluntly, it creates noise. The more scientific understanding is in the area off Doppler and FM (Frequency Modulated) types of distortions, but the more common catch-all phrase is actually jitter. Except we hardly ever use that term in connection with speakers. We need speakers with low jitter, with a low noise floor.
What the Elsinore approach does is to keep the current as clean and uncontaminated as possible. Keep in mind that the individual driver, whether they be Bass, Mids or Tweters, these do not respond to the voltage across its terminals (its VC). But rather responds, makes sounds due to the current through the Voice Coil.
Indeed here a properly configured passive crossover may even have an advantage over active drive. Since the amplifier is a "voltage" device, it can deliver current at any phase angle. But a "current" device can only deliver zero degree phase angle. That is the ideal situation for the driver. So the optimum current through a VC should be zero degree phase angle. If we can limit the current angle of the amplifier, then the crossover can optimised for that and now the bad guy can be turned into the good guy. Our simulations prove that large series reactance and/or resistance acts as a limiter and flattens the current phase angle. The Waveguide is a huge factor here. Below 10KHz the Tweeter in the Elsinore runs much closer to current mode than even in an active speaker system.
So the bottom line is this, the very reason you like active speakers may well turn out to be the same reason that I predict you will like the Elsinores.
Cheers, Joe R.
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