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Old 5th October 2011, 02:25 AM   #971
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Quote:
I guess my question here is more for Joel. Joel, with your waveguide, is there a gap between the tweeter front plate and the back of the waveguide? Is so, how much of a gap and why?
The gap is small. I wanted the tweeter faceplate mounting area to make contact with waveguide back before contact is made at the concave around the dome. I'd guess the gap is around . 2mm.

As for the treble sound: It's very revealing and detailed and shows a huge range in the quantity and quality or style of treble from recordings.. ie Patricia Barber on MFSL is delicate and Flaming Lips industrial treble is harsh and more tip up. MkIV treble didn't swing as much. I can see some care is needed in getting it to taste. Running basic 2.uf and cheap 3ohm and enjoying the sound so much that changing dosen't feel urgent but want to try 1.8 and and realy good resistor to average out the treble more..

Tapte, I only have and odd(1 with through hole mounting, 1 without) pair left from the last batch.. I'm getting more made and it should be about month.
Since youre putting time into the tweaks I would glady part with the pair out of mine and I can use the odd pair- up to you.


HAMLET UPGRADE POSSIBILITIES

Spoonted, here on this site is interested in building the Hamlet Cabinets. He's in Australia and could get them to Joe.

I will supply the waveguides shipped to spoonted.

If others could get together and pay for the drivers would could get a MKV Hamlet.... If joe can do it


A recent experience and fun Too. Also plug for Elsinore

I attended the Toronto Audio Video Entertainment Show on the weekend and listened many systems. Its amazing how different sounding every one is. My favorite was a speaker that was work in progress and not for sale yet.. It contained Accuton drivers.. The sound was very tactile and open.
several peaople in the chairs were glued down with eyes closed..
starting price is $72k for the pair when ready.. Mind you the amps were large mono tubes so not sure how much of that I was hearing..

Enjoyed several single driver systems especially Tannoy..

The Elsinore easily competes in that arena and surpases most..
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Old 5th October 2011, 03:13 PM   #972
tpate is offline tpate  United States
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Joel, I would like a pair that has the mounting holes for the tweeter, if that is possible, that way I can be certain of the gap between the wave guide and tweeter. I have access to some pro testing gear and I could show the differences the size of the gap makes. Do you take pay pal?
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Old 6th October 2011, 03:38 AM   #973
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpate View Post
Joel, I would like a pair that has the mounting holes for the tweeter, if that is possible, that way I can be certain of the gap between the wave guide and tweeter. I have access to some pro testing gear and I could show the differences the size of the gap makes. Do you take pay pal?
The pair I have in place has tweeter mounted to the back. I used 6/32 threads on that pair. If you can please email me.
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Old 6th October 2011, 05:20 AM   #974
jdkJake is offline jdkJake  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Wesseling View Post

HAMLET UPGRADE POSSIBILITIES

If others could get together and pay for the drivers would could get a MKV Hamlet.... If joe can do it
I'm in. Anyone else?
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Old 7th October 2011, 10:34 AM   #975
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Wesseling View Post

HAMLET UPGRADE POSSIBILITIES

Spoonted, here on this site is interested in building the Hamlet Cabinets. He's in Australia and could get them to Joe.

I will supply the waveguides shipped to spoonted.

If others could get together and pay for the drivers would could get a MKV Hamlet.... If joe can do it


A recent experience and fun Too. Also plug for Elsinore

I attended the Toronto Audio Video Entertainment Show on the weekend and listened many systems. Its amazing how different sounding every one is. My favorite was a speaker that was work in progress and not for sale yet.. It contained Accuton drivers.. The sound was very tactile and open.
several peaople in the chairs were glued down with eyes closed..
starting price is $72k for the pair when ready.. Mind you the amps were large mono tubes so not sure how much of that I was hearing..

Enjoyed several single driver systems especially Tannoy..

The Elsinore easily competes in that arena and surpases most..

Just to put a bit more light on the subject, the hamlets will stay with Joe as a small token of appreciation for the amount of work that will be involved for designing crossovers etc.

If there is anyone in Australia who is capable of veneering and would like to help out can they give me a pm please.


Cheers Spoonted
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Old 16th October 2011, 03:48 AM   #976
jdkJake is offline jdkJake  United States
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Default Let the gluing begin!

Finally got some time to start gluing together the sub panels and braces.

Decided to go in a somewhat different direction with the clamping method. I picked up some bowclamps. They are precision manufactured cauls that work really well with long pieces such as these panels. Once you get used to them, they make short work out of the clamping process.

Through a bit of trial and error, I found the caul-sandwich worked best less you induce bowing into the final product. If you have a nice heavy duty table surface to clamp against, you could probably get away with two less bowclamps.
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Last edited by jdkJake; 16th October 2011 at 03:49 AM. Reason: Add the pics!
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Old 16th October 2011, 03:53 AM   #977
jdkJake is offline jdkJake  United States
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Okay, not sure what happened to the pics.

Let's try that again....
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Old 16th October 2011, 04:04 AM   #978
jdkJake is offline jdkJake  United States
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Default Back Panel assembly

After looking at Joel's handiwork, I decided to over-size my cuts by a few millimeters in order to use a shallow through dado to ease assembly (thanks Joel!!).

By shallow, I mean the depth of a single ply. This really worked well as nothing moved around during the glue up. Broke out the bowclamps again for the actual gluing.

I am going to use this technique again on the main side panels. Main cabinet gluing starts tomorrow.
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Old 16th October 2011, 10:34 AM   #979
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpate View Post
A friend and I did some measurements on my build of the Elsinores Mark 5. I thought I would pass on a couple of comments that might be helpful to others. I built my own wave guide. When we did our measurements on the tweeter there was a sharp dip around 2K. My waveguide was about 1mm away from the tweeter. When I used some modeling clay to fill in the gap, the dip went away... If you are using the Joel wave guide try putting a thin washer between the tweeter and the guide when you mount it to the guide and that should let you hear what I am talking about.
Thanks Terry

Some belated comment....

It won't be long before the word is out that we are doing some commercial models based, at least in some part and related to, the experience gained with the development of the Elsinores.

Indeed the Waveguide does benefit from a more, what can I call it, a snug fit in the throat part. The commercial Waveguide will also be based on 150mm aluminium - but the manufacturer has gone to great length - but one that DIY guys would find difficult the match. So Steve and I came up with something that was easy to put on paper and had some 'latitude' in the throat part. So experimentation filling in any gap there is certainly not discouraged.

Other comments...

This is a little tricky, so I use my words carefully. Let me make the point bluntly that a speaker design is basically a series of what may be deemed as acceptable compromises, and this applies to any intelligently (as opposed to just plain luck) speaker design.

Parallel networks relative to the Voice Coils are avoided in the latest Elsinore Mk5 design. All I can say at this stage is there are reasons for that. The near future and cutting edge of dynamic (speakers with coils and magnetic circuits) is the reduction in phase noise. That term applies to the frequency domain, but another name it is known by is, when it is described in its equivalent term is the time domain and... almost any audiophile will recognise the word jitter!

This will in the near future be the cutting edge in speaker design, of this I am quite sure. Indeed one leading (and very expensive) loudspeaker brand's new models are spruiked as using ant-jitter crossovers (but we detect that the technique they use is rather crude).

So this means that a different set of compromises are being imposed that would otherwise be the case.

For those who wish to measure (and indeed also listen) should realise that the best performance comes from a listening distance of at least two metres and approximate 15 degrees off axis. Hence set up the speakers reasonable well apart and hopefully no closer that 50cm from the rear wall. Aim the speakers towards the listener but no more than the listener can see the inside wall.

From here you can experiment with the width of the placement and also if you wish, the degree of toe-in towards the listener.

What is clear is that, if the speaker is pointed directly towards the listener (both of them of course) then expect there to be an excess of energy centered around 4KHz. Toeing out will lessen that lift and if you wish to experiment with that, it is definitely suggested that you do. The final amount of toe-in could well dependent of the inherent brightness of your system and if it is biased that way tonally, you may even find point the speaker straight down the line of the room (but no more) as preferable. But I suggest that in a well-balanced system there will always be some toe-in.

The width of the placement of the speakers can also be dependent on the overall performance of the system. In fact with a really excellent system, they can often be spread a little further apart than you thought possible. But again I shall impose no strict rule other than try it. Speaker placement should never just be taken fro granted.

Cheers, Joe R.
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Old 16th October 2011, 10:37 AM   #980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonted View Post
Just to put a bit more light on the subject, the hamlets will stay with Joe as a small token of appreciation for the amount of work that will be involved for designing crossovers etc.

If there is anyone in Australia who is capable of veneering and would like to help out can they give me a pm please.


Cheers Spoonted
No problem. I am only asking for the cabinets.

Cheers, Joe R.
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