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Old 8th May 2010, 03:20 AM   #611
gabdx is offline gabdx  Canada
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I like the harbeth sound a lot ! Thank you for your answer, this is all I need to start the project. In Canada we call doctorates Dr.
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Old 17th June 2010, 03:37 PM   #612
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Hi Guys

I just got an email from somebody is the land of the Swiss who has upgraded his Mk3 Elsinores to Mk4. He has graciously allowed me to post it here.

Cheers.

Joe R.

------------------------------------------------------------


Hi Joe

Yesterday evening, after work, I did the MK4 modification with R33 Vishay Dale wirewound resistores type RH 10 aluminium housing. Today I'm a bit tired as I almost could not stop listening last night as with each further CD played the sound settled in better and better (as it always does after new soldering). Especially bass notes, acoustic or electric, are much better defined and controlled, the sound of the string and body are now clearly separated. Mids and top end improved too by more clarity. At the weekend I will have more time to analyse all the benefits in detail but already now I can highly recommend this modification.

Kind regards
Hans
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Old 1st August 2010, 05:40 AM   #613
zdr is offline zdr  Belgium
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I recently stumbled upon this design, and it is interesting for me for it's small footprint and low bass extension. As for any diy, it's difficult for me to determine the improvement I might get in my system. Right now, I am running with Zaph ZD5 floor standing variant, and I also have Linkwitz Plutos. Has anyone been able to compare Elsinores with ZD5 or Plutos?
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Old 5th August 2010, 09:31 PM   #614
zdr is offline zdr  Belgium
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I have more or less read the whole thread, and I did not see the inductor core requirement, just L and DCR. Does it mean we can use ferrite core inductors for big ones, L1 and L2?
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Old 5th August 2010, 10:13 PM   #615
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Default Air core when possible

Quote:
Originally Posted by zdr View Post
Does it mean we can use ferrite core inductors for big ones, L1 and L2?
I used a 14 ga Goertz air foil inductor for L2 - I figured that I wanted L2 to be top notch since most of the music goes through L2 to the mid range pair.

The cost of an air core/foil on L1 was more than I wanted to spend, especially at resistances suitably low for high curent bass. For L1 I used ERSE 14 Gauge "Super Silicon Grain Orientated Steel Core Q Coils" for $19.50 each - very nice.

Do other builders have different advice? I don't know what the effect is of my choices compared to some other arrangements.
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Old 5th August 2010, 10:23 PM   #616
zdr is offline zdr  Belgium
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Actually, for L2 I can get away with 1mm wire on air and still have a reasonable price at 6eur and DCR=0.60R. For L1, I plan to use bell core inductor of 10mH, and unwind it to 9mH, unless there are reasonable objections

For 68uF cap I plan to use cheap bipolar.
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File Type: jpg bellcore.jpg (5.3 KB, 400 views)
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Old 6th August 2010, 12:45 AM   #617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zdr View Post
I have more or less read the whole thread, and I did not see the inductor core requirement, just L and DCR. Does it mean we can use ferrite core inductors for big ones, L1 and L2?
I think you are getting some pretty good information from the others. Effectively L1 is seeing a nominal 16 Ohm load and a good ferrite core inductor will do the job effectively while keeping the physical size down to something manageable and reasonable expensive. But if somebody desires to go for a massive air core, then that is their choice. But I have always used ferrite cores.

L2 should be air core, what choice is up to you whether you want to go for something really expensive or exotic, but a good air cored inductor does the job. I don't want to specify high cost components as I know the Elsinores does very well with crossovers that are quite affordable.

Cheers.

Joe R.
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Old 6th August 2010, 03:49 AM   #618
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Hello Joe
In respects to your crossover design; knowing that all 4 drivers are wired to launch a cohesive signal forward much lik a large 2way,could these same principles apply to a 3way? Having 3drivers working there respective bandwidths from 3 seporate chambers? My question centers around the midrange (5"midbass) and the bandpass network. By using the data from the mid-band responce could one eliminate some componants of a by using a parallel (LR contour network) and roll this energy off similar to the two upper Peerless in the Elsinore project? Then one could use a single inductor on the woofer, correct?
Regards,
Francis
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Old 6th August 2010, 04:37 AM   #619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfisher View Post
Hello Joe
In respects to your crossover design; knowing that all 4 drivers are wired to launch a cohesive signal forward much lik a large 2way,could these same principles apply to a 3way? Having 3drivers working there respective bandwidths from 3 seporate chambers?

Yes, separate chambers.

If doing a 3-way and want minimum/controlled phase, then I would use Butterworth provided the crossover is well below 1KHz. This crossover would sum at -3dB and the bass and mid drivers should be well within their piston range and at least and octave or more below and above the crossover frequency. That means they will be in the same phase. But the crossover between mid and tweeter should follow the Renegade Tweeter Theory, where the Tweeter now is reversed electrical phase, but taking advantage that the Tweeter's high rise time reverses the acoustic phase. This crossover, like the Elsinore's, should sum at -6dB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfisher View Post
My question centers around the midrange (5"midbass) and the bandpass network. By using the data from the mid-band responce could one eliminate some componants of a by using a parallel (LR contour network) and roll this energy off similar to the two upper Peerless in the Elsinore project? Then one could use a single inductor on the woofer, correct?
I really could not give specific answers to all that. But on the bass I'd use a single inductor but unlike the Elsinores I'd likely use a Zobel to cancel out the bass driver's inductance and aim for a controlled first order acoustic low pass. The Elsinores are different in this respect in that they were deliberately not a first order roll-off, but sub 1st order. This isn't suitable in a 3-way. The Elsinores bottom two drivers, identical to the mids above, can be used up higher than the bass driver in a 3-way, which must be rolled off properly. They are used in the Elsinores to keep sensitity high, among other things.

Cheers.

Joe R.
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Old 6th August 2010, 04:03 PM   #620
zdr is offline zdr  Belgium
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I might have missed it, but I did not see any exact damping specs. Which material, which walls, sizes, etc. I saw some photos in this thread which led me to believe there is no heavy wall damping with bitumen like mass of any kind?
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