The "Elsinore Project" Thread - Page 57 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 18th December 2009, 05:16 AM   #561
diyAudio Member
 
critofur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Columbus, OH
Send a message via AIM to critofur Send a message via MSN to critofur Send a message via Yahoo to critofur
Here is a cheap source for some ~ 9.3mH .85 Ohm DCR 18 AWG Steel Laminate inductors* at only about ONE DOLLAR each!:

Click the image to open in full size.

Parts-Express.com:*Input/Output Subwoofer Terminal with 150W Crossover | Marcato Crossover subwoofer crossover input-output terminal 150W

Joe, do you think it's better to unwind some to get down to ~ 9.0mH?

See this thread for a discussion about these parts: Winding your own inductors - where to source solid core stuff? - Techtalk at Parts-Express.com

*note - the "Description" of these is incorrect, the picture is correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by timrwarren View Post
I am going to build the Elsinor MK3. Just sourcing out parts at this time.
All is available but the Wool/dacron damping material.
Any ideas what would be a match available in Canada/US?
after reading some of the post I am eager to construct.

Tim
Tim, here you go: Acoustic Dampening Pad | Distributed By MCM | LS00916

Click the image to open in full size.

There are often coupon "codes" for 10% - 15% off, free shipping, etc and I think you get a discount if you buy QTY 4 or more...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Rasmussen View Post
...since I like "Child in Time" by Deep Purple...
Oh, BTW, I used to play soccer w/Deep Purple, just thought that would be amusing to share
__________________
Critofur
http://www.ohmspeakers.com <- all the folks here are my friends

Last edited by critofur; 18th December 2009 at 05:24 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th December 2009, 05:27 AM   #562
diyAudio Member
 
critofur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Columbus, OH
Send a message via AIM to critofur Send a message via MSN to critofur Send a message via Yahoo to critofur
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantraxl View Post
The midwoofers are still available online for $55 apiece. Build on!..
Parts Express is carrying them again now:

Parts-Express.com:*Peerless 830875 6-1/2" Nomex Cone HDS Woofer | Peerless P830875 830875 6-1/2" midwoofer HDS Woofer nomex cone sandwich woofer bass mid midbass mtm 2-way vline logic line array tymphany09

$43.58 EA (4+) w/free shipping

Oh, and I haven't seen details about "MK3" is that up on the main Elsinore web page Joe?

If I build a version of these (prob. will), I will most likely use this tweeter: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=275-140
__________________
Critofur
http://www.ohmspeakers.com <- all the folks here are my friends
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th December 2009, 06:22 AM   #563
diyAudio Member
 
Joe Rasmussen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Sydney, Australia
Send a message via MSN to Joe Rasmussen
Don't worry about the choke being 9.3mH - the value is less critical than usual. It is in series with two drivers and no zobel to cancel out the rising inductance of the drivers themselves. The acoustic roll-off is thus much less that the usual 1st order 6dB/Octave. Indeed 8-10mH will do.

Cheers.

Joe R.
__________________
The "Elsinore Project" DIY Speaker System
Custom Analogue Audio - we also support and promote non-profit DIY
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th January 2010, 08:07 PM   #564
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Seattle
Default building a narrower cabinet ?

I know I know.. the diffraction effects will be different and the baffle step will change but for spousal buy-in i would like to limit width to 8" which is possible by rotating the drivers with flat sides out. Will it be simple enough to tweak the xover or will the change really even be noticed?

Also is there any verdict on whether these will benefit/need toe-in for listening from a wide range of positions. I was thinking of angling the baffles rather than having to rotate the entire speaker.

I see the woofs are available on PE but did not see the tweeter?
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th January 2010, 03:31 AM   #565
diyAudio Member
 
Joe Rasmussen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Sydney, Australia
Send a message via MSN to Joe Rasmussen
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmark View Post
I know I know.. the diffraction effects will be different and the baffle step will change but for spousal buy-in i would like to limit width to 8" which is possible by rotating the drivers with flat sides out. Will it be simple enough to tweak the xover or will the change really even be noticed?

Also is there any verdict on whether these will benefit/need toe-in for listening from a wide range of positions. I was thinking of angling the baffles rather than having to rotate the entire speaker.

I see the woofs are available on PE but did not see the tweeter?
Not really able to predict exactly what you have in mind. That is the sort of thing I do when computer modelling and that means capturing both the acoustic and electrical parameters of the driver in situ. You change the box you change both, yes it can also change the Z plot of the driver.

So what changes would be needed - and this concerns primariy but not necessarily exclusively, the crossover, is very difficult to say. Almost certainly the parallel R1 and L2. If you wish to tune those by ear and feel that you end up with a satisfactory result, then OK for you but it would not satisfy my requirement or the way I do things. But if it works for you, fine and have no problem with that, but I am not able to give a nod of official Elsinore approval. I am sure you can see that is reasonable.

Re the ideal off axis response, this occurs between 10-15 degrees. You should not listen right right On Axis. Toe-in should be done in concert with finding the right width between Left and Right and toe-in that is optimum with that width. Greater width may require greater toe-in. But I suspect you will still end up around 10-15 degrees.

Re the Peerless HDS tweeter, it is undergoing an identity change. This may explain why it's not currently/yet on the PE site, but it is on the Madisound site:

Click the image to open in full size.

VOILA!

The transformation to a Scan-Speak driver.

More info here: Scan-Speak Discovery D2608/9130 1" Textile Dome HDS Tweeter from Madisound

And PDF file here: http://www.madisound.com/catalog/PDF/d2608-913000.pdf

Note that all Scan-speaker drivers are Made in Denmark. And I can attest that these guys have a different outlook on things that Tymphany. If you want my opinion or ask for it, remember I am a Dane, OK?

Cheers.

Joe R.
__________________
The "Elsinore Project" DIY Speaker System
Custom Analogue Audio - we also support and promote non-profit DIY
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th January 2010, 06:39 AM   #566
rabbitz is offline rabbitz  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
rabbitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Newcastle, Australia
The 810921 is a great tweeter and has always been made by Scan Speak apparently.

The D2608/913000 also contributes exceptionally well thanks to the built-in high sensitivity and rear chamber. This driver has been designed as a very price competitive alternative to our Scan-Speak 1" classic tweeters, and has been manufactured at Scan-Speak since 2005.
__________________
No longer DIY active
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th January 2010, 01:02 PM   #567
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
Default tweeters

I recieved my tweeters from Solen, $72 apiece. On the invoice it indicates chinese manufacturing. Is this an issue? Are they the real deal? They look identical to any photo I have seen. The speaker has these #'s 30044738 / QC 080808 810921.


Solen Electronique Inc.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2010, 12:17 AM   #568
diyAudio Member
 
Joe Rasmussen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Sydney, Australia
Send a message via MSN to Joe Rasmussen
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbitz View Post
The 810921 is a great tweeter and has always been made by Scan Speak apparently.

The D2608/913000 also contributes exceptionally well thanks to the built-in high sensitivity and rear chamber. This driver has been designed as a very price competitive alternative to our Scan-Speak 1" classic tweeters, and has been manufactured at Scan-Speak since 2005.
It's come out of the closet it seems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by timrwarren View Post
I recieved my tweeters from Solen, $72 apiece. On the invoice it indicates chinese manufacturing. Is this an issue? Are they the real deal? They look identical to any photo I have seen. The speaker has these #'s 30044738 / QC 080808 810921.

Solen Electronique Inc.
My undertanding was that they were indeed made in China, but I am not so sure now. I have a pair right here and no indication of the origin of manufacture, so indeed they may well have been Made in Denmark all along. Tymphany is right now not listing them on the website. It also seems that the separation of Scan-Speak away from Tymphany means they cannot be made under the Peerless name as that is owned by Tymphany. Hence the 810921 HDS tweeter has emerged under the Scan-Speak moniker.

If anybody has a different take on this I'd be willing to listen.

There is an additional complication of the story going by the claims of Russel Storey on his website:

"New Tweeter Design NEW - HDS Tweeter - Developed for this specific application by SSS - NEW Peerless HDS tweeter. Our new HDS Peerless tweeter is a 1" treated cloth soft dome unit, developed by Stones Sound Studio in conjunction with Peerless of Denmark."

No mention of Scan-Speak. But on Scan-Speak's new website there are now what looks like a number of Vifa and Peerless drivers they are now claiming to be their own. So some internal structure would have indicated which drivers were truly or actually Scan-Speak drivers, but they were able to sell them at lesser price by disguising them as Peerless etc and keep the branding of Scan-Speak for premium only drivers. Now these designs have reverted to them and they have decided they will become available under the Discovery banner or as their value for dollar range, still separating these drivers from all-out more expensive Scan-Speak drivers. Tymphany has a lot of drivers missing on their website I believe.

Like I said, does anybody have a different take on this?

Cheers.

Joe
__________________
The "Elsinore Project" DIY Speaker System
Custom Analogue Audio - we also support and promote non-profit DIY

Last edited by Joe Rasmussen; 10th January 2010 at 12:46 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2010, 11:03 AM   #569
rabbitz is offline rabbitz  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
rabbitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Newcastle, Australia
There was some discussion on the 810921 in another thread and that's where the quotation came from (bottom of the page).
Scan-Speak Discovery

The build quality is superb and more importantly so is the sound. I'm trying to get my memory working (was a reseller over this period) and think these were being made prior to Tymphany manufacturing in China.

That reference to Stones Sound Studio I think is for the 810653 which was called the HDS tweeter in the WES catalogue. It came out just after the HDS series midwoofers. I believe it was only available in Australia via WES.
__________________
No longer DIY active

Last edited by rabbitz; 10th January 2010 at 11:29 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2010, 11:25 AM   #570
rabbitz is offline rabbitz  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
rabbitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Newcastle, Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by timrwarren View Post
I recieved my tweeters from Solen, $72 apiece. On the invoice it indicates chinese manufacturing. Is this an issue? Are they the real deal? They look identical to any photo I have seen. The speaker has these #'s 30044738 / QC 080808 810921.
[/url]
When I was a reseller I would get country of manufacture on invoices being the location of the parent company even though manufacture was elsewhere.
__________________
No longer DIY active
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"Proac 2.5 clone" or "Elsinore project" Joel Wesseling Multi-Way 10 26th May 2011 05:51 AM
A thread to post your "project files" critofur Multi-Way 10 21st March 2008 12:50 PM
"compact loudspeaker factory visit from "magico mini" thread Nanook Multi-Way 2 4th January 2008 07:30 AM
The "Really simple and cheap speaker designs for the newbie!" thread. Spasticteapot Multi-Way 5 19th March 2006 04:16 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:35 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2