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Old 7th March 2009, 09:42 PM   #421
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Quote:
Originally posted by Joe Rasmussen
Just a point, the smaller baffle area, especially the width, means that the diffraction loss will start at a higher frequency. This could mean a lack of energy in the lower midrange. So keep the bevelling minimal.
As long as the ultimate width of the baffle remains the same, a roundover or bevel should only reduce the ripple as the transition is made, and not affect where the transition occurs.

dave
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Old 7th March 2009, 09:50 PM   #422
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Quote:
Originally posted by planet10

My RTP is finally starting to go together too.
Yep, a BIG job that. I oughta know.

Quote:
Originally posted by planet10


I'm missing some context wrt the terra Firma...

You've been out of the loop lately. It's been something Allen and I have been working on since middle of last year. I coined the name and Allen liked it.

Maybe the wrong forum, but maybe we can justify it by saying that all DIY'ers should get the best source possible, to show off our creations to the greatest good, not to mention pleasure. So maybe just a couple of links will suffice. So, for you and others:

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/dig...14/142994.html

Also this one, and even if Terra Firma is not mention, it is in fact a review of just that. Read the responses after the review.

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hi...25/252126.html

Download the brochure:

http://vacuumstate.com/fileupload/Ne...Feb_2009_1.pdf

Read the article that lays out the Terra Firma Concept:

customanalogue.com/terra_firma.htm

Get the best musical source you can get, and it need not cost an arm and a leg. Probably the player they have now may be just the ticket, rather than buying a new player. And yes, I declare self-interest.

Joe R.
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Old 7th March 2009, 10:07 PM   #423
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Quote:
Originally posted by planet10


Phase plugs at a minimum to flatten out the response and increase the size of the sweet spot (i'm sure we could find something to swap, if you want some ready made ones). Cone treatment to take them a bit further. Some sort of OB -- with a big one you can get away with just the B200, a small" one will need help on the bottom. The OBs we did for these were 1.2 x 1.1 m, with this augmented to be 1 continuous 5m wide baffle there was nothing lacking in the bass (but totally impractical)
I have in mind to cut three (six in all) panels up near 1.8M tall and say 400mm wide. Connect the three together with something like door hinges and make 1.2M wide, and fold back wings for stability. The B200 in the centre panel and at listening height, you get the picture. Definitely want to use fullrange and hopefully will get some nice bass. I can employ a pair of Critical Q Subs, sounds like fun.

Have you used Visaton correction network or just straight to amp terminals?

Re phase plugs, yes I am aware and seen samples on your site. I'm interested. Hard to remove dust cap? Re cone treatment, are we talking EnABL?

Your thoughts?

Joe R.
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Old 7th March 2009, 10:29 PM   #424
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Quote:
Originally posted by Joe Rasmussen
I have in mind to cut three (six in all) panels up near 1.8M tall and say 400mm wide. Connect the three together with something like door hinges and make 1.2M wide, and fold back wings for stability. The B200 in the centre panel and at listening height, you get the picture. Definitely want to use fullrange and hopefully will get some nice bass. I can employ a pair of Critical Q Subs, sounds like fun.
That will work... you may find a need to seal the join (duct tape would be the manly way

Quote:
Have you used Visaton correction network or just straight to amp terminals?
Before phase plugs we started thinking of correction filters and even tweeters. But phase plugs seem to do most of the job and we just ran them straight off the amp terminals.

Quote:
Hard to remove dust cap? Re cone treatment, are we talking EnABL?
B200 caps are the most tedious to remove of drivers i have done due to the hard glue at the join (and they often are off-centre). Cone treatments include EnABL.

dave
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Old 12th March 2009, 02:03 PM   #425
Tyson is offline Tyson  United States
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Wow, this is a really impressive project, I think I may have to make a run at building it myself.

But, I have a couple of questions:

1) I have 3 amps and a DCX 2496 crossover - can these be used with the Elsinore? I'm not sure if the Elsinore is a 3 way, 2 way, or a 2.5 way speaker.

2) Driver layout - is there any reason that the WWMTM layout was chosen over a WMTMW layout? Seems like the latter would deal with room modes a bit better by spreading the bass origin points further apart.
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Old 12th March 2009, 08:05 PM   #426
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It's a 2.5 way so in affect, it's a WWWTW.
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Old 12th March 2009, 11:42 PM   #427
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tyson
Wow, this is a really impressive project, I think I may have to make a run at building it myself.

But, I have a couple of questions:

1) I have 3 amps and a DCX 2496 crossover - can these be used with the Elsinore? I'm not sure if the Elsinore is a 3 way, 2 way, or a 2.5 way speaker.

2) Driver layout - is there any reason that the WWMTM layout was chosen over a WMTMW layout?
1) As Rob says, they are 2.5 way. I would be inclined to keep the 9mmH choke on the bottom driver and the parallel 1mH and 15R for the top. That way you only have to deal with the crossing over to the tweeter and you know that the diffraction stuff has been sorted. You could of course do it it all, I would imagine, but the chances of it getting to work like the Elsinore do is now much more complicated.

2) It could have been, but was not. Lots of reasons and far too many to list quickly. But these two will do: The ease of building DIY and undertanding that particular attention was given to the internal air flow of the box and where to put the port to maximise that effect. Don't get me wrong, I fully inderstand and indeed appreciate the vertical symmetry gives a potential point source effect down to LF and also floor and ceiling bounce effects reduced. But in these areas the Elsinores are still better than average.

May I make a practical suggestion. Build the crossover passively, get to listen to what it does, then use your electronic "tools" and see what you get. Otherwise you won't have the reference to compare against. This is the pro design pratice I have seen followed, where they make available both active and passive versions. One needs to be built first and become a reference for the other.

Re DCX 2496 crossover - keep in mind that the 9mH choke on the bottom two drivers is less than first order. Will DCX 2496 crossover allow you do that? The overall tonal balance are affected by this, hence my above comments how it inter-acts with 1mH/15R components to create that balance.

Joe R.
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Old 13th March 2009, 12:42 AM   #428
Tyson is offline Tyson  United States
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OK, so that means I can use my 2 tube amps to drive it, assuming I can use the DCX 2496 crossover.

But I'm still wondering why the drivers were not done in a symmetrical manner? In other words, why do WWWTW instead of WWTWW? I like the look of symmetry, so I'd prefer to do a WWTWW layout, unless there's a strong reason not to, from a sound quality standpoint.
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Old 13th March 2009, 03:23 AM   #429
Tyson is offline Tyson  United States
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Sorry for the double message, I posted it before Joe's response, but it didn't show up because I'm still in newbie status, so every post has to be approved by a mod, which evidently takes a while.
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Old 15th March 2009, 10:34 PM   #430
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Hello All,

Did a few little system test and hearing tests on the weekend using the trial version of EAW's SMAART 6.

I used a little Sony powered electret mic with my sound card (SB Audigy ZS internal) and the inbuilt sound tools from the SMAART 6. software.

Everything was done in room with the mic centrally located - i will have another shot with the mic in the listening position when I dont have my girl friend 2 cats and a dog getting annoyed by the noises.

Pink noise - to check freq response, system easily makes 20-20k rolling off naturally and gradually at the lower end of the spectrum.

Phase response - surprisingly good considering the mic position..... perhaps the tweeter diffraction felt helps alot here ???

Have not tried transient or step response...

Did a little hearing test and i could hear sine wave tones out to just over 17kHz. (I am 29)

Also I added some feet to the Elsinores and started making the crossover boxes which are quite large..... 280 x 380 x ~180 mm from 25 mm and 18 mm MDF with the same foot print as the speakers...


-Dan
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