GB for North America is off
Thanks for those who expressed interest in a Wave Guide group buy for North Americans. I regret to say that the group buy is off as far as I'm concerned. Perhaps someone else has the conviction and energy to go on - please do.
Explanation: I have made it known to Joe and Steve that we are interested in a group buy and also sent PM to Steve but have had no response. I conclude that Joe and Steve are not interested in a group buy, so you are on your own. Sorry.
Best wishes with yours Mk 5s,
Francois
Thanks for those who expressed interest in a Wave Guide group buy for North Americans. I regret to say that the group buy is off as far as I'm concerned. Perhaps someone else has the conviction and energy to go on - please do.
Explanation: I have made it known to Joe and Steve that we are interested in a group buy and also sent PM to Steve but have had no response. I conclude that Joe and Steve are not interested in a group buy, so you are on your own. Sorry.
Best wishes with yours Mk 5s,
Francois
GB
As a DIYer I find this last post difficult to disagree with as I too requested to be listed on the Group buy! 'BUT!' If one reads between the lines it would appear that both Joe and Steve were gracious enough to share the schematic with us and leave the replicating to our own resources. There must be a capable Wood worker/Machinist who can facilitate the production of a number of wave guides from the renderings posted on #718, 719, and 729! There-in lies an opportunity for some energetic entrepreneur here in N. America who stands to make a tidy some from a few interested builders! Any takers?
Francis
As a DIYer I find this last post difficult to disagree with as I too requested to be listed on the Group buy! 'BUT!' If one reads between the lines it would appear that both Joe and Steve were gracious enough to share the schematic with us and leave the replicating to our own resources. There must be a capable Wood worker/Machinist who can facilitate the production of a number of wave guides from the renderings posted on #718, 719, and 729! There-in lies an opportunity for some energetic entrepreneur here in N. America who stands to make a tidy some from a few interested builders! Any takers?
Francis
Please do not interpret my message as ungrateful to Joe or Steve for they generous contribution to our hobby. Obviously these are very talented and generous men - I personally thank you and I'm sure every member of this forum feels the same.
The purpose of group buys is to reduce the unit cost of purchased items. In our case Steve handmade each of the wave guides, so who could not understand that his unit cost is about the same.
Let me say again, thank you Steve for making the wave guides available to any buyer and especially for making the drawings available to all.
My best regards,
Francois
Hi Guys
Re the group buy, since the first batch wasn't done and sent untill at the end of last week - that batch arrived here on Friday, then we really were not yet in a position yet to talk about what it might cost etc. In fact we had been discussing things on the phone - and I had no idea just how many hours it took for Steve to make these - so I was hardly in a position to negotiate.
BTW, Francois, Steve did not get any private message from you. I asked and he checked and confirmed that he did not. So you were not ignored, something else broke down.
If you wish to make sure he gets a message, let me know as well and I will send him a copy, so if he doesn't get one he will get the other. We will then discuss things by phone. Unlike me, Steve does not want his email address to be public.
Re group buy - I can only suggest two things.
(1) Nominate a quantity to Steve "greenpea" and he will determine a price as he now is in a better position to do so. Make sure I know as well, my direct email address is hardly a secret: joeras@vacuumstate.com
Or...
(2) Find a way to make these locally and maybe help us out - if you know somebody with automated machinery to make these, that would be excellent and nobody will mind if they are distributed in order to help other DIY'ers out for a reasonable cost and not for profit motive as we were the ones who designed it.
BTW, may I also add that any handling that I do is basically for free as I want as much as possible for Steve to get what is left over after basic things like postage is covered.
Cheers, Joe
Re the group buy, since the first batch wasn't done and sent untill at the end of last week - that batch arrived here on Friday, then we really were not yet in a position yet to talk about what it might cost etc. In fact we had been discussing things on the phone - and I had no idea just how many hours it took for Steve to make these - so I was hardly in a position to negotiate.
BTW, Francois, Steve did not get any private message from you. I asked and he checked and confirmed that he did not. So you were not ignored, something else broke down.
If you wish to make sure he gets a message, let me know as well and I will send him a copy, so if he doesn't get one he will get the other. We will then discuss things by phone. Unlike me, Steve does not want his email address to be public.
Re group buy - I can only suggest two things.
(1) Nominate a quantity to Steve "greenpea" and he will determine a price as he now is in a better position to do so. Make sure I know as well, my direct email address is hardly a secret: joeras@vacuumstate.com
Or...
(2) Find a way to make these locally and maybe help us out - if you know somebody with automated machinery to make these, that would be excellent and nobody will mind if they are distributed in order to help other DIY'ers out for a reasonable cost and not for profit motive as we were the ones who designed it.
BTW, may I also add that any handling that I do is basically for free as I want as much as possible for Steve to get what is left over after basic things like postage is covered.
Cheers, Joe
Well...
I dont know if it is entirely in the spirit of things, but if I can get one waveguide in hand, I can take molds off it, and recast them in resin or something similar. I dont have the ability to generate the precise shape from nothing, but I can copy an original perfectly.
Since I am building my elsinores in concrete, I had planned to reproduce the waveguides for myself in a stone/resin mix just to go along with the existing aesthetic.
If pouring copies is considered misuse of the existing work, I can understand, but it would be a way for people in N America to get the units for less cost.
I dont know if it is entirely in the spirit of things, but if I can get one waveguide in hand, I can take molds off it, and recast them in resin or something similar. I dont have the ability to generate the precise shape from nothing, but I can copy an original perfectly.
Since I am building my elsinores in concrete, I had planned to reproduce the waveguides for myself in a stone/resin mix just to go along with the existing aesthetic.
If pouring copies is considered misuse of the existing work, I can understand, but it would be a way for people in N America to get the units for less cost.
WG
As I see this Joe and Steve have posted to the net, the details of the drawing for our benefit as DIY builders. I see no guilt or remorse in taking this drawing and make it available for personal use, even if you are wishing to, at the least, recover your expenses. My understanding of his last post on this #718 he offered it to the public, but in all fairness contact either Joe or Steve and ask for 'Express' permission to produce. I would be willing to purchase a pair cast in stone aggregate like brown granite! Would look great against a wood veneer!
As I see this Joe and Steve have posted to the net, the details of the drawing for our benefit as DIY builders. I see no guilt or remorse in taking this drawing and make it available for personal use, even if you are wishing to, at the least, recover your expenses. My understanding of his last post on this #718 he offered it to the public, but in all fairness contact either Joe or Steve and ask for 'Express' permission to produce. I would be willing to purchase a pair cast in stone aggregate like brown granite! Would look great against a wood veneer!
If they're currently available...
I think at this point I'd just like to be sure of getting a pair of the waveguides. I've read completely through this thread and I'm thinking this may be the last pair of speakers I'll ever need (HA!). I think the tube friendly flat impedance and high(ish) efficiency with good bass extension is exactly what I'm looking for.
If other really cool and exotic versions of the waveguide come out later I could always make the current ones available to someone else so they won't go to waste.
I think at this point I'd just like to be sure of getting a pair of the waveguides. I've read completely through this thread and I'm thinking this may be the last pair of speakers I'll ever need (HA!). I think the tube friendly flat impedance and high(ish) efficiency with good bass extension is exactly what I'm looking for.
If other really cool and exotic versions of the waveguide come out later I could always make the current ones available to someone else so they won't go to waste.
"I've read completely through this thread and I'm thinking this may be the last pair of speakers I'll ever need (HA!). "
Have Two years with them and there is no other speaker I've heard that I would replace them with. My music collection continues to expand in many directions. I believe its due partly because of the overall Balance of the Elsinore. The new changes should secure my feelings nicely..
Joel
Have Two years with them and there is no other speaker I've heard that I would replace them with. My music collection continues to expand in many directions. I believe its due partly because of the overall Balance of the Elsinore. The new changes should secure my feelings nicely..
Joel
Thanks Joel. I was more laughing at myself than anything else.
But I must say that the Elsinores seem to have achieved the goal of putting a world class speaker within the grasp of most audiophiles and that's a great accomplishment. After reading about the development process and the many accolades from builders I've decided they're worth taking the risk and buying the reasonable but still expensive components.
The proof will be in the listening and I will definitely document my build and add my story to the growing body of information about this design. I really appreciate all the time and effort Joe has put into developing it and putting it all out there for everyone to build. It's incredibly generous on his part, especially considering the patience he's had dealing with people's questions and requests.
Thanks, Joe.
But I must say that the Elsinores seem to have achieved the goal of putting a world class speaker within the grasp of most audiophiles and that's a great accomplishment. After reading about the development process and the many accolades from builders I've decided they're worth taking the risk and buying the reasonable but still expensive components.
The proof will be in the listening and I will definitely document my build and add my story to the growing body of information about this design. I really appreciate all the time and effort Joe has put into developing it and putting it all out there for everyone to build. It's incredibly generous on his part, especially considering the patience he's had dealing with people's questions and requests.
Thanks, Joe.
Hi Joe and steve,the new waveguide fits like a dream and looks great too.
So glad i did not have to make that......
Originally was going to paint the cabinet 2 pak gloss but have decided to go a paperback wood veneer,so for now i am going to put a quick coat of paint on in the next couple of days then i,ll take some photos of the waveguide in place for all.
Pretty close to finishing the crossovers (waiting on 9R and binding post).
I'm far from a sparky so i,ll post the picture here and if anyone can see mistake please let me know.
Cheers
So glad i did not have to make that......
Originally was going to paint the cabinet 2 pak gloss but have decided to go a paperback wood veneer,so for now i am going to put a quick coat of paint on in the next couple of days then i,ll take some photos of the waveguide in place for all.
Pretty close to finishing the crossovers (waiting on 9R and binding post).
I'm far from a sparky so i,ll post the picture here and if anyone can see mistake please let me know.
Cheers
Attachments
Gday Spoonted (and all the rest)
Happy to hear that the WG is too your liking Your Xover is looking nice!
To those who are chasing the WG group buy.
Please note that I hadn't received any PM. Don’t know how, or why.
Anyhow, it would not make any difference to me if I made 1, 10, or 20 pair. They are a pain in the **** to make, and are hand finished. I do use a jig to ensure the WGs are accurate and consistent, but each is hand finished.
It took me two weekends of trial and error to determine the jig layouts- a method of making the WG to be "batch orientated"- Two router bits modified to match the dimensions required- each of them cost $60 a piece- and takes between , I hazard to guess, 2-3hrs per WG. As most of you know, working with MDF (particularly using a router), is a very very dusty business (NB the dust is not health food either), and something I approach carefully. (For those who are interested read up on the MSDS for MDF, I guarantee it will shock you).
So if you want to make them yourself, the drawings are there, so help yourselves- go for it. I have no problem with that at all.
To those who want to buy one, contact Joe. As Joe previously suggested, you may be able to save on postage for a group quantity.
I only offered to make and sell the WG to get into the spirit of DIY audio and enable all of you a hassle free opportunity to enjoy MK5 Elsinore listening, definitely not to make money.
Happy to hear that the WG is too your liking
Your Xover is looking nice!To those who are chasing the WG group buy.
Please note that I hadn't received any PM. Don’t know how, or why.
Anyhow, it would not make any difference to me if I made 1, 10, or 20 pair. They are a pain in the **** to make, and are hand finished. I do use a jig to ensure the WGs are accurate and consistent, but each is hand finished.
It took me two weekends of trial and error to determine the jig layouts- a method of making the WG to be "batch orientated"- Two router bits modified to match the dimensions required- each of them cost $60 a piece- and takes between , I hazard to guess, 2-3hrs per WG. As most of you know, working with MDF (particularly using a router), is a very very dusty business (NB the dust is not health food either), and something I approach carefully. (For those who are interested read up on the MSDS for MDF, I guarantee it will shock you).
So if you want to make them yourself, the drawings are there, so help yourselves- go for it. I have no problem with that at all.
To those who want to buy one, contact Joe. As Joe previously suggested, you may be able to save on postage for a group quantity.
I only offered to make and sell the WG to get into the spirit of DIY audio and enable all of you a hassle free opportunity to enjoy MK5 Elsinore listening, definitely not to make money.
I've contacted a local company that does CNC cutting and recieved response below. If the price is right it could be nice but thinking it will be expensive. I was asking for price on multiples so I'll see what happens. I"ll state the price given to me for anyone interested..
Greenpea, is it possible to explain what router bits you used for the top and bottom radius? I cant seem to visualize what they might be. If the price below is unacceptable I will have to tackle myself.
Thanks, Joel
Hi,
i looked quickly at your drawing.
..to cut from plastic may be expensive to get acrylic that thick, It would look fabulous tho.
the next dense,cheap thing i think is MDF. Acrylic paint and it should look fine.
I'll have to draw your piece onto my CAD/CAM to see cut times.
I'll get back to you soon with pricing.
Thanks,
Greenpea, is it possible to explain what router bits you used for the top and bottom radius? I cant seem to visualize what they might be. If the price below is unacceptable I will have to tackle myself.
Thanks, Joel
Hi,
i looked quickly at your drawing.
..to cut from plastic may be expensive to get acrylic that thick, It would look fabulous tho.
the next dense,cheap thing i think is MDF. Acrylic paint and it should look fine.
I'll have to draw your piece onto my CAD/CAM to see cut times.
I'll get back to you soon with pricing.
Thanks,
Hello, I've been following this thread and thought I would send the waveguide dimensions from post #718 to a friend of mine that has a cnc machine. His response is below. Joel, I hope I'm not butting in. If so, I'll back out.
Hey Tom,
One option would be to cut them out of MDF and let each builder paint them. You could also use mahogany.
Another option if they needed to be finished would be to cut them out of MDF and have a thermo-foil added to them, which is a thin plastic laminate. I could ask around. Let me know if you need anything else.
Hey Tom,
One option would be to cut them out of MDF and let each builder paint them. You could also use mahogany.
Another option if they needed to be finished would be to cut them out of MDF and have a thermo-foil added to them, which is a thin plastic laminate. I could ask around. Let me know if you need anything else.
Guess I didn't really finish this post. He is ready and willing to make them. I will get the final price and post it.
Tom
No Problem Tom
I'm still waiting for the price from Creative Cnc
I have another possible contact now and waiting for a friend to get me to see this person
If and when I get someone to make them I was going to state the price I get for anyone that would like a pair.
Tom,If your guy is ready then go ahead.
Joel
I'm still waiting for the price from Creative Cnc
I have another possible contact now and waiting for a friend to get me to see this person
If and when I get someone to make them I was going to state the price I get for anyone that would like a pair.
Tom,If your guy is ready then go ahead.
Joel
Hi Joel
I've replied to your email, belatedly. Sorry about that.
But it sounds like some good things will happen and making the Waveguide available...
But really, at this stage Steve is the man when it comes to details of how he made them. From very basic instructions he produced a small masterpiece. But his intention was never about the dollars.
We discused, before we put posted the dimensions at post #718, and so it is clear that we welcomed others to make them if they wanted to take up the challenge. I only ask that they be made in the same spirit that Steve did.
For anybody who want to make them, I just reiterate: Keep this in mind, it is the shape of the Waveguide that is important, not how it is achieved. And then provided it is made of decent material, solid, not flimsy and securely fitted and no rattles. That's all.
Sorry if I have been missing in action lately, I lost a dear friend a bit over a week ago and I'm quite frankly feeling it, also made and received many phone calls and spent much time talking with other friends who knew the person. I am of course speaking of Allen Wright.
But life must go on...
Joe R.