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Old 5th January 2009, 10:24 PM   #311
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Quote:
Originally posted by BL4S7ER
im currently in the process of building LCR elsinore speakers. Regarding the centre design im just following the details as listed on page 4 of this thread. All parts are cut and im awaiting binding posts before assembling all the boxes. Im holding off purchasing corssover components until all the boxes are built.
It seems that the centre channel and two-way for those who want compact (relatively speaking) stereo pair as well as for other multi-channel purposes, will be a reality in 2009.

Since you are in Perth, if/when you have boxes ready before Rob does (he is a couple of hours away), I can give you a suggested crossover for the time being, to get yours up and going. But I need to arrange with Rob to actually get a physical box here and then the final tweaking and fully recommended crossover. But based on my current measurement of the Elsinores I should be able to come up with something for you first that you can later just update to the final product/crossover.

The same applies to anybody else wherever they are. The results and development will be reported here.

We can make this a team work and anybody willing to build the box right now or within a short time, will effectively become part of the project. How is that for encouragement?

I have been thinking about the name, I propose this be called The "Hamlet Project" Loudspeaker . That fits into the same name scheme as Elsinore. Any thoughts?

From here on it is up to you guys.

Joe R.
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Old 6th January 2009, 01:35 PM   #312
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Default Great idea. great project name

Joe,

Excellent! The proposed Hamlet project is very good news to me.

I actually bought extra mid/bass drivers with the Elsinore batch of 8; planning to do "companion speakers" for Elsinore.

Unfortunately I can't just yet start building boxes; I'm still working on my Elsinores. Expect to complete them in about 10 weeks.

Francois
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Old 6th January 2009, 09:17 PM   #313
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Default Re: Great idea. great project name

Quote:
Originally posted by Francois G
Joe,

Excellent! The proposed Hamlet project is very good news to me.
Alright, it sounds like Hamlet in 2009 will happen. All interested parties stay posted.

Within a couple of weeks I will post a provisional Hamlet crossover based on what available modeling material I have here.

I am fairly certain that this will be close to the final confirmed crossover and hopefully only resistor values needs to be changed, likely two. These can be tweaked by ear before I get to do physical measurements from what I am hoping will be a box coming from Rob, as he is closest. One resistor will affect the diffraction loss and the other fine tune the output level of the tweeter. The LCR 6.8R/3.3uF/0.47mH on the MidBass will be exactly the same as the Elsinores and so will the 0.82mH/68uF null on the tweeter. So we do not have to entirely reinvent the wheel, but get diffraction loss (affects tonal balance) and tweeter level (brightness balance) right.

Joe R.
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Old 6th January 2009, 09:42 PM   #314
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Default Long live Hamlet!

I will watch the progress on Hamlet closely while I finish my Elsinores.

Francois
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Old 6th January 2009, 09:45 PM   #315
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Default Variarion in crossover inductors

I recently received my crossover inductors and just for kicks measured their inductances on a fancy HP impedance analyzer.

It was a bit disappointing to find that most inductances were about 5% low of the specified value. I measured the impedances at 100 Hz and 1000Hz and found them to be close to each other but still about 5% low. I don't know what current the analyzer actually uses in the measurement, but it is capable of 1 amp maximum.

Does anyone have experience with such inductor variations and the effect on the Elsinore sound?

This got me thinking about specifications for inductors used in crossovers. At what frequency/current does the manufacturer specify inductance?
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Old 6th January 2009, 11:20 PM   #316
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for low inductance values 5% is quite a good tolerance for audio / crossover inductors... you could hand wind one quite easily to achieve a better value if you have access to the HP analyser

what brand of inductors are they ?

-Dan
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Old 7th January 2009, 02:14 AM   #317
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I wouldn't worry about, 5% is just fine. The design can easily cope with that variation and virtually inaudible. Besides, it's probably more important if Left and Right are both -5%. It sounds like they are saving a little on copper, so after winding a 100 they sneak in a couple for free. Am I being too cynical? I suspect not.

Joe R.
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Old 7th January 2009, 02:31 AM   #318
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I agree joe, with copper prices the way they are......
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Old 7th January 2009, 02:05 PM   #319
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Quote:
Originally posted by danieljw
for low inductance values 5% is quite a good .... what brand of inductors are they ?
Thanks for the replies and reassurances.

The brand is ERSE, which I believe does good work. It appears that the dealer used higher value coils and unwound them to match my lower value requirements. Could be that their inductance meter was off.

One day I might try to improve on the accuracy and precision of the coils by adding a few windings to the low inductances. That's the luxury of having the crossover outside the enclosure.

Best,
Francois
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Old 11th January 2009, 11:01 AM   #320
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Hi Guys

Here is a mini review of the Elsinores just finished, somewhere in the US. His name is Joel and I gather he reads these pages:

Part 1:

Anyway, Got the Elsinores working late last night and spent 3 hours with them and they sound amazing. I love the their ability to go loud without ear fatigue or shouting etc - -not over-dynamic I guess is part reason [I think he means that dynamics are not overly exaggerated - ed]. Soundstage, treble, bass, driver integration is all very good. I'm in analytical mode right now and very excited about listening the rest of the week. Going to spend Friday evening with two friends who also have interest in this area and interested in their thoughts....

I have many things to say... but have time restraints and really just want to continue listening during the evenings, especially LP's.

Thank you for this design and your time.. I'm very impressed.

Part 2:

I continue to be captivated by these speakers. The balance makes them sound complete. The midrange is wonderfully natural. Acoustic music is pure magic. I crank rock recordings for a couple of hours and feel the energy, presence and openness and leave the room with the same ears as when I entered..

I want to hear them for a long period with several amplifiers, the three I'm trying have each there own character I have one small issue and that is that the closed hi hat sounds funny, unnatural in some way? I started the first night with a 40c Chinese 2.7 ohm resistor on the tweeter. The next day I received a Mundorf 2.7 ohm resistor and swapped it out and the improvement on overall treble was huge but the hi hat thing is still noticeable?? Maybe tubes are the answer or better resister still... Maybe it's a few recordings, need more time.

With this small issue with closed hi hat, the Elsinore is still the most satisfying speaker I have heard. I can remember the sound of every kilo-buck system I've heard and I found an anomaly with each that would keep me from buying and this includes the overly lively treble from Audio Note speakers (inner reflections from baffle) but purity (weight, harmonics and edge I guess) of the fundamental part of the notes on the jazz recording I heard is still in my memory...Must be the AN tube amps.

My friends were very impressed.. The first thing that was said by Jay when they walked into the room is "the sax on that recording normally sounds too strong" He got it right away. I heard 3D many times and both guys thought at least $10k at a retail shop. What happened fairly quickly though is they wanted to listen to the music and they forget about how it was being generated. We did question the amount of ambient information and that they were not open enough and moving them further apart was asked of me and I rejected it at that time because I new it didn't work with some other speakers and was thinking about some other things that it might be...so we left them for the evening.

Well, stupid me. I spread them out now (close to 10 feet now with inside panels visible) so my first paragraph stands.. Now when I pull out familiar recordings, they have all the air that I remember.. Some one said "monitor with a heart" I feel this way when I listen....

My friend are coming back soon with the new placement and they will be impressed.

I'll give you their comments and you can quote anything that has or will be said.

Joel


My comments:

Experimenting with room positioning can bring about startling improvements. Not that the Elsinores are room unfriendly perse' - but they can interact somewhat more with the room than speakers with less bandwidth.

Also, they can be spread apart more than most speakers can and I believe this has to do with good vector summing both on and off axis spread. Joel seemed to have discovered that.

That resistor in series with the tweeter is critical. Get the best quality you can and/or experiment. I use Dales.

I think the hi hat issue that he is hinting it could be an amplifier issue, but must be careful as I haven't heard the problem in his system. But I feel I am on comfortable saying so as others haven't mentioned this as a problem. But I am sure Joel will have a chance to try other/more amps and if he could get his hands on a really good tube amp, I am definitely biased towards tubes (but I do solid state stuff as well).

So guys, your comments?

Joe R.
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