Here is a cheap source for some ~ 9.3mH .85 Ohm DCR 18 AWG Steel Laminate inductors* at only about ONE DOLLAR each!:
Parts-Express.com:*Input/Output Subwoofer Terminal with 150W Crossover | Marcato Crossover subwoofer crossover input-output terminal 150W
Joe, do you think it's better to unwind some to get down to ~ 9.0mH?
See this thread for a discussion about these parts: Winding your own inductors - where to source solid core stuff? - Techtalk at Parts-Express.com
*note - the "Description" of these is incorrect, the picture is correct.
Tim, here you go: Acoustic Dampening Pad | Distributed By MCM | LS00916
There are often coupon "codes" for 10% - 15% off, free shipping, etc and I think you get a discount if you buy QTY 4 or more...
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Parts-Express.com:*Input/Output Subwoofer Terminal with 150W Crossover | Marcato Crossover subwoofer crossover input-output terminal 150W
Joe, do you think it's better to unwind some to get down to ~ 9.0mH?
See this thread for a discussion about these parts: Winding your own inductors - where to source solid core stuff? - Techtalk at Parts-Express.com
*note - the "Description" of these is incorrect, the picture is correct.
Tim, here you go: Acoustic Dampening Pad | Distributed By MCM | LS00916
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
There are often coupon "codes" for 10% - 15% off, free shipping, etc and I think you get a discount if you buy QTY 4 or more...
Oh, BTW, I used to play soccer w/Deep Purple, just thought that would be amusing to share
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Parts Express is carrying them again now:
Parts-Express.com:*Peerless 830875 6-1/2" Nomex Cone HDS Woofer | Peerless P830875 830875 6-1/2" midwoofer HDS Woofer nomex cone sandwich woofer bass mid midbass mtm 2-way vline logic line array tymphany09
$43.58 EA (4+) w/free shipping
Oh, and I haven't seen details about "MK3" is that up on the main Elsinore web page Joe?
If I build a version of these (prob. will), I will most likely use this tweeter: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=275-140
Don't worry about the choke being 9.3mH - the value is less critical than usual. It is in series with two drivers and no zobel to cancel out the rising inductance of the drivers themselves. The acoustic roll-off is thus much less that the usual 1st order 6dB/Octave. Indeed 8-10mH will do.
Cheers.
Joe R.
Cheers.
Joe R.
building a narrower cabinet ?
I know I know.. the diffraction effects will be different and the baffle step will change but for spousal buy-in i would like to limit width to 8" which is possible by rotating the drivers with flat sides out. Will it be simple enough to tweak the xover or will the change really even be noticed?
Also is there any verdict on whether these will benefit/need toe-in for listening from a wide range of positions. I was thinking of angling the baffles rather than having to rotate the entire speaker.
I see the woofs are available on PE but did not see the tweeter?
I know I know.. the diffraction effects will be different and the baffle step will change but for spousal buy-in i would like to limit width to 8" which is possible by rotating the drivers with flat sides out. Will it be simple enough to tweak the xover or will the change really even be noticed?
Also is there any verdict on whether these will benefit/need toe-in for listening from a wide range of positions. I was thinking of angling the baffles rather than having to rotate the entire speaker.
I see the woofs are available on PE but did not see the tweeter?
Not really able to predict exactly what you have in mind. That is the sort of thing I do when computer modelling and that means capturing both the acoustic and electrical parameters of the driver in situ. You change the box you change both, yes it can also change the Z plot of the driver.
So what changes would be needed - and this concerns primariy but not necessarily exclusively, the crossover, is very difficult to say. Almost certainly the parallel R1 and L2. If you wish to tune those by ear and feel that you end up with a satisfactory result, then OK for you but it would not satisfy my requirement or the way I do things. But if it works for you, fine and have no problem with that, but I am not able to give a nod of official Elsinore approval. I am sure you can see that is reasonable.
Re the ideal off axis response, this occurs between 10-15 degrees. You should not listen right right On Axis. Toe-in should be done in concert with finding the right width between Left and Right and toe-in that is optimum with that width. Greater width may require greater toe-in. But I suspect you will still end up around 10-15 degrees.
Re the Peerless HDS tweeter, it is undergoing an identity change. This may explain why it's not currently/yet on the PE site, but it is on the Madisound site:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
VOILA!
The transformation to a Scan-Speak driver.
More info here: Scan-Speak Discovery D2608/9130 1" Textile Dome HDS Tweeter from Madisound
And PDF file here: http://www.madisound.com/catalog/PDF/d2608-913000.pdf
Note that all Scan-speaker drivers are Made in Denmark. And I can attest that these guys have a different outlook on things that Tymphany. If you want my opinion or ask for it, remember I am a Dane, OK?
Cheers.
Joe R.
The 810921 is a great tweeter and has always been made by Scan Speak apparently.
The D2608/913000 also contributes exceptionally well thanks to the built-in high sensitivity and rear chamber. This driver has been designed as a very price competitive alternative to our Scan-Speak 1" classic tweeters, and has been manufactured at Scan-Speak since 2005.
The D2608/913000 also contributes exceptionally well thanks to the built-in high sensitivity and rear chamber. This driver has been designed as a very price competitive alternative to our Scan-Speak 1" classic tweeters, and has been manufactured at Scan-Speak since 2005.
tweeters
I recieved my tweeters from Solen, $72 apiece. On the invoice it indicates chinese manufacturing. Is this an issue? Are they the real deal? They look identical to any photo I have seen. The speaker has these #'s 30044738 / QC 080808 810921.
Solen Electronique Inc.
I recieved my tweeters from Solen, $72 apiece. On the invoice it indicates chinese manufacturing. Is this an issue? Are they the real deal? They look identical to any photo I have seen. The speaker has these #'s 30044738 / QC 080808 810921.
Solen Electronique Inc.
It's come out of the closet it seems.
My undertanding was that they were indeed made in China, but I am not so sure now. I have a pair right here and no indication of the origin of manufacture, so indeed they may well have been Made in Denmark all along. Tymphany is right now not listing them on the website. It also seems that the separation of Scan-Speak away from Tymphany means they cannot be made under the Peerless name as that is owned by Tymphany. Hence the 810921 HDS tweeter has emerged under the Scan-Speak moniker.
If anybody has a different take on this I'd be willing to listen.
There is an additional complication of the story going by the claims of Russel Storey on his website:
"New Tweeter Design NEW - HDS Tweeter - Developed for this specific application by SSS - NEW Peerless HDS tweeter. Our new HDS Peerless tweeter is a 1" treated cloth soft dome unit, developed by Stones Sound Studio in conjunction with Peerless of Denmark."
No mention of Scan-Speak. But on Scan-Speak's new website there are now what looks like a number of Vifa and Peerless drivers they are now claiming to be their own. So some internal structure would have indicated which drivers were truly or actually Scan-Speak drivers, but they were able to sell them at lesser price by disguising them as Peerless etc and keep the branding of Scan-Speak for premium only drivers. Now these designs have reverted to them and they have decided they will become available under the Discovery banner or as their value for dollar range, still separating these drivers from all-out more expensive Scan-Speak drivers. Tymphany has a lot of drivers missing on their website I believe.
Like I said, does anybody have a different take on this?
Cheers.
Joe
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There was some discussion on the 810921 in another thread and that's where the quotation came from (bottom of the page).
Scan-Speak Discovery
The build quality is superb and more importantly so is the sound. I'm trying to get my memory working (was a reseller over this period) and think these were being made prior to Tymphany manufacturing in China.
That reference to Stones Sound Studio I think is for the 810653 which was called the HDS tweeter in the WES catalogue. It came out just after the HDS series midwoofers. I believe it was only available in Australia via WES.
Scan-Speak Discovery
The build quality is superb and more importantly so is the sound. I'm trying to get my memory working (was a reseller over this period) and think these were being made prior to Tymphany manufacturing in China.
That reference to Stones Sound Studio I think is for the 810653 which was called the HDS tweeter in the WES catalogue. It came out just after the HDS series midwoofers. I believe it was only available in Australia via WES.
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When I was a reseller I would get country of manufacture on invoices being the location of the parent company even though manufacture was elsewhere.
I have spoken several times to Mike Lenehan (Lenehan Audio) who uses the 810921 (I've the one who put him onto it, so all those ML-1 owners out there have me to thank for that) and he said several times to me tha he has had some build quality problems in the Tymphany era. Maybe now without that interference Scan-Speak can just do the thing they do well and their QC will meet expectation due SS products. I think that is a good thing - SS and Tymphany, Danish virtue versus American dollar chasers.
The interesting thing is that some Peerless and Vifa designs were in fact Scan-Speak designs.
Cheers.
Joe
PS: Reference to WES means you are in Newcastle NSW, Australia. Most here would think you are a Geordie, a Brit. Is NSW short for Newcastle Sydney Wollongong (three largest cities in the state)?
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Joe
You have to line up Newcastle with the Oz flag then it's all clear. I've heard the Newcastle Sydney Wollongong reference before and notice which comes first.
Did Mike have issues with the 810921 or was it other drivers such as the HDS woofers. I sold drivers from the DST days and a large portion of the Tymphany era and did notice a change in the cosmetic quality of some of the HDS woofers and other products but they seemed to work as well. IIRC there was some changes to the Nomex cones when they moved from Denmark and may be down to different suppliers they were using.
My 810921 was bought early on when it was selling for peanuts for this kind of quality. It actually replaced a Scan Speak tweeter in the design.
I think the Vifa XG18 was also one of Scan Speak's.
You have to line up Newcastle with the Oz flag then it's all clear. I've heard the Newcastle Sydney Wollongong reference before and notice which comes first.
Did Mike have issues with the 810921 or was it other drivers such as the HDS woofers. I sold drivers from the DST days and a large portion of the Tymphany era and did notice a change in the cosmetic quality of some of the HDS woofers and other products but they seemed to work as well. IIRC there was some changes to the Nomex cones when they moved from Denmark and may be down to different suppliers they were using.
My 810921 was bought early on when it was selling for peanuts for this kind of quality. It actually replaced a Scan Speak tweeter in the design.
I think the Vifa XG18 was also one of Scan Speak's.
Joe
You have to line up Newcastle with the Oz flag then it's all clear. I've heard the Newcastle Sydney Wollongong reference before and notice which comes first.
Did Mike have issues with the 810921 or was it other drivers such as the HDS woofers. I sold drivers from the DST days and a large portion of the Tymphany era and did notice a change in the cosmetic quality of some of the HDS woofers and other products but they seemed to work as well. IIRC there was some changes to the Nomex cones when they moved from Denmark and may be down to different suppliers they were using.
My 810921 was bought early on when it was selling for peanuts for this kind of quality. It actually replaced a Scan Speak tweeter in the design.
I think the Vifa XG18 was also one of Scan Speak's.
As far as I can determine, MOST of the OLD Vifa line were still being made in Denmark, and hence became the property of ScanSpeak, because they gained all the Danish manufaccturing rig.
That 810921, isn't too bad a tweeter is it
Now the Elsinore speakers have been playing superb and everything is "broken in".
I ordered the parts for the tweeter Bias, but i newer came around to integrating it into the crossover and now i can't seem to find the diagram for it.
could you please post the crossover diagram with the bias tweak again?
Thanks for a great speaker design
I ordered the parts for the tweeter Bias, but i newer came around to integrating it into the crossover and now i can't seem to find the diagram for it.
could you please post the crossover diagram with the bias tweak again?
Thanks for a great speaker design
I found this post interesting to say the least!
Elsinore DIY Speaker Build
what do others make of this? That said, it doesnt appear that they even tried a passive xo approuch so may have been missing something critical.
Elsinore DIY Speaker Build
what do others make of this? That said, it doesnt appear that they even tried a passive xo approuch so may have been missing something critical.
Interesting indeed. I wish my workshop was that well equipped!
I'm building a pair too and have some difficulty figuring out how to countersink the tweeters. In the audiocircle tread I noticed that Tyson routed a "ring" for the countersunk and then presumably used a whole saw to drill the 3" hole for the Tweeter magnet. But I'm not sure how to do that circle. Is this done with a template?
I shall appreciate hearing from others who has experience with this countersinking.
Thanks,
Francois