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Old 8th August 2008, 03:39 PM   #241
BL4S7ER is offline BL4S7ER  Australia
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Hi guys,

I keep hearing of this speaker when used as a stereo source porwered by tube amps. Will it still perform well in a HT environment with the following amp?
http://www.integrahometheater.com/mo...s=Receiver&p=i

cheers
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Old 10th August 2008, 10:30 AM   #242
rob323 is offline rob323  Australia
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Mine were first powered by an Integra DTR5.6. The AVR will do it no problems at all. My Elsinores are used for 2 channel and HT and I very rarely feel the need to add a sub to the HT experience. The Blue Man Group DVD will hit a clean 110dB at my chair (about 3 metres back from the speakers) during some of the drum solos, with the Integra at an absolute volume of 80 (which is the "max volume" limit I have set on it).

Hope that helps.

Cheers,
Rob.
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Old 10th August 2008, 11:28 AM   #243
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Quote:
Originally posted by WS6Fury

1) Is there a room size recommendation for these monsters?

2) Is there any special receiver requirement to push the speakers? ( I would be working off a Yamaha 3800)

3) Will this design work for low volume levels in HT use at night time (obviously made for ****ing your neighbors off hehe :cool

1) I use them in my current sound room which is 7M x 4M x 2.6M - I would consider medium size. But very small rooms may not be the best way to show them off.

Are they big enough to be called "monsters"? What you think Rob? Is a 3 cubic foot (for our American friends) a big speaker? Probably, but not unwieldy so, I would think.

2) I use them with my current 20 Watt JLTi EL34 Triode amp as seen on www.customanalogue.com and can generate significant SPLs. Don't worry, they can be physically felt in that room. I love when I have unsuspecting listeners over and let the system rip - Deep Purple "Child in Time" for the In Rock album, then afterward asking how many watts per channel they are listening to. They look dumbfounded when I tell them.

3) Some speakers, specially the usual American speakers designed to go with muscle amps, they just don't get lively until you pump a lot of current into them. Lynn Olsson has remarked on this. In my view it is a case of dynamic compression where you need volume to compensate, hence you end up having to turn the volume up. As Rob and other users will easily testify, the Elsinore are highly responsive because the are more voltage sensitive than current sensitive. The original concept behind the Elsinores was EXTREMELY low dynamic compression. I know many will doubt my next statement, but most amplifiers suffer from worse compression than the Elsinores and in fact the Elsinores are limited by the amp in this respect.

Joe R.
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Old 10th August 2008, 12:46 PM   #244
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Default Alternate pvc pipe sizes

Francios G,

I obtained 3 1/2" pvc conduit (3.5" i.d.) from my local electrical supplier. It seems they stock sizes that aren't available from plumbing suppliers.
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Old 10th August 2008, 12:51 PM   #245
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Default Re: Alternate pvc pipe sizes

Quote:
Originally posted by Ed LaFontaine
Francios G,

I obtained 3 1/2" pvc conduit (3.5" i.d.) from my local electrical supplier. It seems they stock sizes that aren't available from plumbing suppliers.

Bravo!

Joe R.

PS: Hey, I know that Mongo - blazing you know what!
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Old 10th August 2008, 02:28 PM   #246
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Default Re: Alternate pvc pipe sizes

Quote:
Originally posted by Ed LaFontaine
Francios G,

I obtained 3 1/2" pvc conduit (3.5" i.d.) from my local electrical supplier. It seems they stock sizes that aren't available from plumbing suppliers.
Good find!!! I'll have to check around
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Old 11th August 2008, 01:46 AM   #247
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Hi Joe,

What is the chance of a demonstration at the Melbourne Audio Club?
Iím not a committee member, but I think our diy oriented Club would really like to hear your speakers

> the Elsinore are highly responsive because they are more voltage sensitive than current sensitive

Pardon the off topic question, but when designing speakers, is there/ are there driver parameter(s) that you can share, that guide you to voltage sensitive drivers or a voltage sensitive system?

Thanks
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Old 11th August 2008, 05:17 AM   #248
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Quote:
Originally posted by otto88
Hi Joe,

What is the chance of a demonstration at the Melbourne Audio Club?

> the Elsinore are highly responsive because they are more voltage sensitive than current sensitive

Pardon the off topic question, but when designing speakers, is there/ are there driver parameter(s) that you can share, that guide you to voltage sensitive drivers or a voltage sensitive system?

Thanks
I would love to demo them down there but I haven't been to Melbourne since the 90's and nothing on the horizon to indicate when.

It's the "array" rather than single driver in the Elsinore that makes them voltage sensitive.

Briefly here are the basic maths:

Single driver 8 Ohm 90 dB sensitive nominally = 1 Watt.

Two drivers, Parallel 4 Ohm, 96dB = 2 Watt (half the impedance doubles the current).

Two drivers, series 16 Ohm = 1/2 Watt (halving the current).

Series/Parallel configuration = 1 Watt (same current as a single driver) =96dB.

Peel back to 90dB requied SPL and current is a quarter.

Divide required 1/4W between four driver = 1/16th of a Watt.

The fact that each driver now only has to dissipate 1/16th of a Watt for the same target SPL, the voice coils in the individual drivers now run very cool indeed leading to a massive reduction in dynamic compression... and of course distortion.

Acoustic efficiency gained = 6dB, that's four-fold. That tells the whole story.

There you have the original brief for the Elsinores going back to around 2002.

Joe R.
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Old 11th August 2008, 08:54 AM   #249
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Hi Joe

> I haven't been to Melbourne since the 90's

Shame, but yes Melbourne is a fair way to schlep the speakers.
Are their any owners in Melbourne who might let a potential punter have a listen??

While I understood the big reduction in dynamic compression, and knew that 4 drivers Series/ Parallel gain sensitivity and lower the ohms load, I didnít realise that ~ if I understand you correctly

> Peel back to 90dB required SPL and current is a quarter.

Current sensitivity is 4 * a single driver

> Divide required 1/4W between four driver = 1/16th of a Watt.

Power (voltage) sensitivity is 16 * a single driver

With excellent drivers as modestly priced as the HDS, I wonder why more manufacturers and diyers donít do it?
Iíve read most of the material on your website; with 4 drivers, does some lobing occur?

Cheers
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Old 11th August 2008, 09:24 AM   #250
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Quote:
Originally posted by otto88

With excellent drivers as modestly priced as the HDS, I wonder why more manufacturers and diyers donít do it?
Iíve read most of the material on your website; with 4 drivers, does some lobing occur?

Cheers
There seems to be a reticence re connecting drivers in series. The bottom two drivers are in series and gradually rolled off from a couple of hundred Hertz up - less than single order, so they form a 16 Ohm combination. The same applies to the two upper drivers which form a point source with the tweeter, so you have two different filters seeing 16 Ohm because of series connection. For some reason - and it's a blind spot - this just doesn't seem to happen.

IF I was to do a Two-Way 3 driver system a la D'Appollito (using same drivers as Elsinores) I would seriously consider doing the opposite what everybody else does; they parallel them and you get a 4 Ohm speaker system, I'd consider doing it as a 16 Ohm combination. A 90dB speaker would stay 90dB but only draw 1/2W nominally. I haven't done yet but I might try it.

Joe R.
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