planet10 said:
Yep, a BIG job that. I oughta know.
planet10 said:
You've been out of the loop lately. It's been something Allen and I have been working on since middle of last year. I coined the name and Allen liked it.
Maybe the wrong forum, but maybe we can justify it by saying that all DIY'ers should get the best source possible, to show off our creations to the greatest good, not to mention pleasure. So maybe just a couple of links will suffice. So, for you and others:
www.audioasylum.com/audio/digital/messages/14/142994.html
Also this one, and even if Terra Firma is not mention, it is in fact a review of just that. Read the responses after the review.
www.audioasylum.com/forums/hirez/messages/25/252126.html
Download the brochure:
vacuumstate.com/fileupload/NewsletterFeb_2009_1.pdf
Read the article that lays out the Terra Firma Concept:
customanalogue.com/terra_firma.htm
Get the best musical source you can get, and it need not cost an arm and a leg. Probably the player they have now may be just the ticket, rather than buying a new player. And yes, I declare self-interest.
Joe R.
planet10 said:
I have in mind to cut three (six in all) panels up near 1.8M tall and say 400mm wide. Connect the three together with something like door hinges and make 1.2M wide, and fold back wings for stability. The B200 in the centre panel and at listening height, you get the picture. Definitely want to use fullrange and hopefully will get some nice bass. I can employ a pair of Critical Q Subs, sounds like fun.
Have you used Visaton correction network or just straight to amp terminals?
Re phase plugs, yes I am aware and seen samples on your site. I'm interested. Hard to remove dust cap? Re cone treatment, are we talking EnABL?
Your thoughts?
Joe R.
Joe Rasmussen said:
That will work... you may find a need to seal the join (duct tape would be the manly way
Before phase plugs we started thinking of correction filters and even tweeters. But phase plugs seem to do most of the job and we just ran them straight off the amp terminals.
B200 caps are the most tedious to remove of drivers i have done due to the hard glue at the join (and they often are off-centre). Cone treatments include EnABL.
dave
Wow, this is a really impressive project, I think I may have to make a run at building it myself.
But, I have a couple of questions:
1) I have 3 amps and a DCX 2496 crossover - can these be used with the Elsinore? I'm not sure if the Elsinore is a 3 way, 2 way, or a 2.5 way speaker.
2) Driver layout - is there any reason that the WWMTM layout was chosen over a WMTMW layout? Seems like the latter would deal with room modes a bit better by spreading the bass origin points further apart.
But, I have a couple of questions:
1) I have 3 amps and a DCX 2496 crossover - can these be used with the Elsinore? I'm not sure if the Elsinore is a 3 way, 2 way, or a 2.5 way speaker.
2) Driver layout - is there any reason that the WWMTM layout was chosen over a WMTMW layout? Seems like the latter would deal with room modes a bit better by spreading the bass origin points further apart.
Tyson said:
1) As Rob says, they are 2.5 way. I would be inclined to keep the 9mmH choke on the bottom driver and the parallel 1mH and 15R for the top. That way you only have to deal with the crossing over to the tweeter and you know that the diffraction stuff has been sorted. You could of course do it it all, I would imagine, but the chances of it getting to work like the Elsinore do is now much more complicated.
2) It could have been, but was not. Lots of reasons and far too many to list quickly. But these two will do: The ease of building DIY and undertanding that particular attention was given to the internal air flow of the box and where to put the port to maximise that effect. Don't get me wrong, I fully inderstand and indeed appreciate the vertical symmetry gives a potential point source effect down to LF and also floor and ceiling bounce effects reduced. But in these areas the Elsinores are still better than average.
May I make a practical suggestion. Build the crossover passively, get to listen to what it does, then use your electronic "tools" and see what you get. Otherwise you won't have the reference to compare against. This is the pro design pratice I have seen followed, where they make available both active and passive versions. One needs to be built first and become a reference for the other.
Re DCX 2496 crossover - keep in mind that the 9mH choke on the bottom two drivers is less than first order. Will DCX 2496 crossover allow you do that? The overall tonal balance are affected by this, hence my above comments how it inter-acts with 1mH/15R components to create that balance.
Joe R.
OK, so that means I can use my 2 tube amps to drive it, assuming I can use the DCX 2496 crossover.
But I'm still wondering why the drivers were not done in a symmetrical manner? In other words, why do WWWTW instead of WWTWW? I like the look of symmetry, so I'd prefer to do a WWTWW layout, unless there's a strong reason not to, from a sound quality standpoint.
But I'm still wondering why the drivers were not done in a symmetrical manner? In other words, why do WWWTW instead of WWTWW? I like the look of symmetry, so I'd prefer to do a WWTWW layout, unless there's a strong reason not to, from a sound quality standpoint.
Hello All,
Did a few little system test and hearing tests on the weekend using the trial version of EAW's SMAART 6.
I used a little Sony powered electret mic with my sound card (SB Audigy ZS internal) and the inbuilt sound tools from the SMAART 6. software.
Everything was done in room with the mic centrally located - i will have another shot with the mic in the listening position when I dont have my girl friend 2 cats and a dog getting annoyed by the noises.
Pink noise - to check freq response, system easily makes 20-20k rolling off naturally and gradually at the lower end of the spectrum.
Phase response - surprisingly good considering the mic position..... perhaps the tweeter diffraction felt helps alot here ???
Have not tried transient or step response...
Did a little hearing test and i could hear sine wave tones out to just over 17kHz. (I am 29)
Also I added some feet to the Elsinores and started making the crossover boxes which are quite large..... 280 x 380 x ~180 mm from 25 mm and 18 mm MDF with the same foot print as the speakers...
-Dan
Did a few little system test and hearing tests on the weekend using the trial version of EAW's SMAART 6.
I used a little Sony powered electret mic with my sound card (SB Audigy ZS internal) and the inbuilt sound tools from the SMAART 6. software.
Everything was done in room with the mic centrally located - i will have another shot with the mic in the listening position when I dont have my girl friend 2 cats and a dog getting annoyed by the noises.
Pink noise - to check freq response, system easily makes 20-20k rolling off naturally and gradually at the lower end of the spectrum.
Phase response - surprisingly good considering the mic position..... perhaps the tweeter diffraction felt helps alot here ???
Have not tried transient or step response...
Did a little hearing test and i could hear sine wave tones out to just over 17kHz. (I am 29)
Also I added some feet to the Elsinores and started making the crossover boxes which are quite large..... 280 x 380 x ~180 mm from 25 mm and 18 mm MDF with the same foot print as the speakers...
-Dan
Looks like I am going to be able to give this project a go, yes!
Three more questions:
1. I would like to build a small plinth (base) slightly wider than the speaker and use some spikes for stability/leveling purposes (I have a very inquisitive 2 year old daughter). Will this alter the sound?
2. If I build the passive crossover (instead of using my DCX), can I still set it up so that I can passively biamp? I've got 2 VTA ST-70 stereo amps (EL34 based), and it would be nice to be able to use both of them.
3. In my living room there is no way that I can pull them away from the wall as far as recommended. I assume this distance is recommended due to the port on the back. If I know before I start that I will only be able to get them 6 to 8 inches away from the rear wall, is there anything I can do with the port to compensate for that? Or should I just build it as designed, and then use my DCX to EQ out the likely in-room bass hump?
Three more questions:
1. I would like to build a small plinth (base) slightly wider than the speaker and use some spikes for stability/leveling purposes (I have a very inquisitive 2 year old daughter). Will this alter the sound?
2. If I build the passive crossover (instead of using my DCX), can I still set it up so that I can passively biamp? I've got 2 VTA ST-70 stereo amps (EL34 based), and it would be nice to be able to use both of them.
3. In my living room there is no way that I can pull them away from the wall as far as recommended. I assume this distance is recommended due to the port on the back. If I know before I start that I will only be able to get them 6 to 8 inches away from the rear wall, is there anything I can do with the port to compensate for that? Or should I just build it as designed, and then use my DCX to EQ out the likely in-room bass hump?
Question 2 reply. The "standard" Elsinore plans allow for just this situation. The crossover is intended to be external so that each "filter band" goes directly to the connectors for the corresponding driver(s), i.e. you amps could be directly connected to drivers if you feed the right band pass from you electronic crossover.
I don't know the answers for questions 1 and 3 (I would also be very interested in an reply to #3).
Best wishes with your Elsinores.
Francois
I don't know the answers for questions 1 and 3 (I would also be very interested in an reply to #3).
Best wishes with your Elsinores.
Francois
I found my Elsinore's very forgiving as far as placement close to a wall was concerned but I imagine having them that close to a wall would be far from "ideal" and it would be impossible for anyone else to say how your room would react.
I have a timber plinth on mine with spikes. I'll let Joe confirm it but I suspect that as the plinth is so close to the floor, it's effect is next to nothing.
I have a timber plinth on mine with spikes. I'll let Joe confirm it but I suspect that as the plinth is so close to the floor, it's effect is next to nothing.
Thanks Guys
Thanks for helping out as I have been a bit incognito of late.
The optimum distance from the wall has little to do with the port being on the rear. Even allowing for 6-8 inches it will not significantly interfere with the port action (unless jammed against the wall with zero gap). But what is optimal location in the room is a different matter, so don't worry, build it as shown. It will still work OK.
As for using two amplifiers, the crossover schematic shows exactly that:
Note that the Tweeter gets its own amplifier. As this is a 2 1/2 Way system, all 6.5" drivers sees same large amplitude at low frequencies, so in this case is the correct way to "Bi-Wire."
In conventional 3-Ways, I would connect the Midrange and Tweeter legs of the crossover together and the high amplitude Bass on its own. So you can see there is a difference between 3-Way and 2 1/2 Way systems.
Re the plinth on the bottom, this is fine, and adds stability. Being near the floor has no adverse effects to the design proper. BTW, nice picture Rob. I am adding it to the gallery and should be there by the time you read this.
DOES ANYBODY HAVE PHOTOS AS I WANT TO EXPAND THE GALLERY PAGE?
www.customanalogue.com/elsinore/elsinore_13.htm
It would be much appreciated and by others too I'd think. I would prefer finished or working Elsinore pics, even working ones yet to be finished (lacking final polish), as this will show variety. As long as it will be interesting to somebody.
Joe R.
Thanks for helping out as I have been a bit incognito of late.
The optimum distance from the wall has little to do with the port being on the rear. Even allowing for 6-8 inches it will not significantly interfere with the port action (unless jammed against the wall with zero gap). But what is optimal location in the room is a different matter, so don't worry, build it as shown. It will still work OK.
As for using two amplifiers, the crossover schematic shows exactly that:
Note that the Tweeter gets its own amplifier. As this is a 2 1/2 Way system, all 6.5" drivers sees same large amplitude at low frequencies, so in this case is the correct way to "Bi-Wire."
In conventional 3-Ways, I would connect the Midrange and Tweeter legs of the crossover together and the high amplitude Bass on its own. So you can see there is a difference between 3-Way and 2 1/2 Way systems.
Re the plinth on the bottom, this is fine, and adds stability. Being near the floor has no adverse effects to the design proper. BTW, nice picture Rob. I am adding it to the gallery and should be there by the time you read this.
DOES ANYBODY HAVE PHOTOS AS I WANT TO EXPAND THE GALLERY PAGE?
www.customanalogue.com/elsinore/elsinore_13.htm
It would be much appreciated and by others too I'd think. I would prefer finished or working Elsinore pics, even working ones yet to be finished (lacking final polish), as this will show variety. As long as it will be interesting to somebody.
Joe R.
danieljw said:
Great! Much appreciated.
mantraxl said:
That should be quite interesting.
Re alternative materials, sometime I'd like to try doing the front panel assembly using HD3, the high density version of MDF. The front panel is where you need it most, the rest could be normal MDF. Lenehan Audio in Queensland does a mini-monitor made of HD3 and a definite improvement over the MDF version.
Joe R.
Right im 90% there (or maybe not :/ )
Got my Elsinores including center (hamlet?) all built, and am just putting the final coats on. Finished using American Oak veneer and have just completed a two part stain (spirit based black stain followed by Black Japan stain).
So far so good, just have to apply a french polish followed by satin polyurathane topcoat and then install drivers!! yay.
Since im so close i though now might be a good time to get an order in for the components required for the crossover and since ive got a centre im hoping to get an idea as to what values are going to change.
Do the values on page four still stand?
Exciting stuff, and i look forward to finally hearing what all the fuss is about!
Will post some pics of current progress later tonight.
Got my Elsinores including center (hamlet?) all built, and am just putting the final coats on. Finished using American Oak veneer and have just completed a two part stain (spirit based black stain followed by Black Japan stain).
So far so good, just have to apply a french polish followed by satin polyurathane topcoat and then install drivers!! yay.
Since im so close i though now might be a good time to get an order in for the components required for the crossover and since ive got a centre im hoping to get an idea as to what values are going to change.
Do the values on page four still stand?
Exciting stuff, and i look forward to finally hearing what all the fuss is about!
Will post some pics of current progress later tonight.
as promised heres a pic of the baby speaker (though it still weighs a far bit). Is pretty hard to get photos to show all the detail, so this ones a little over exposed, and in reality they appear much darker (purposely designed this way as its going to be placed in a ht room with a projector).
