The "Elsinore Project" Thread

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AudioFanMan

AudioFanMan

Member
Joined 2020
boswald said:
AudioFanMan: I'm not surprised, my Allison Ones have run well on 300mw/ch when the power goes out (Nak550 headphone amp), and the Elsinores are 3-4 db more sensitive.


But think of all the headroom you've got!
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slighty off this topic.. I built an Amp camp.. but need a preamp for it as my bluetooth receivers output is barley loud enough at max. (dont want to switch over all of my inputs to it as there is no volume controll.. figured Id use my devices bluetooth master volume for testing) but now Im wondering if what I settle on could drive the elsinores by itself... I may try usb-c to rca directly into the ACA and see what the elsinores can do .....
 
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mcphervi

Member
Joined 2017
Joe Rasmussen said:
They should mix'n'match with Hamlets and Elsinores quite well.

It is amazing that I took a chance (not a big chance since this was not that expensive) to buy it because of that size and the AMT tweeter, then realising that you could easily swap out the cheaper driver with one that looks much better - and it worked without even making a single change. Now with a Logitech Subwoofer Z2300 it is used in my computer which has X-Plane 3-27"-Monitor flight sim setup and the sound side of the 'flying experience' is actually good. It's a big sound and very effective. My computer is playing music very well too. So that has given me the idea to develop them further, it gave me the bug to do so.

1. To keep the development time down, do a series of 1/6th octave pink noise measurements and check the initial response of the drivers and how they 'sum' and maybe even trimming the capacitor and tweeter phase will bring about a quick increase. This will be done very soon.

2. Fit a dowel stick or similar across one side to the other side, this should be simple to do via the 4" driver hole. Small boxes are already stiff, their inherent advantage, so this will be all I do in this area.

3. It looks like the box is a bit under-filled. I will likely increase that and also because it is a sealed box, I can measure the sealed Q and the effect of the fill changes. The box on its own is not a big bass speaker, very compact size, but the 'quality' of the bass comes across as really good. It will fit into systems and other speakers with bigger drivers etc, but on its own is still very credible for its size.

4. Doing the above would be enough for a computer speaker. But the next steps becomes more serious. A full computer modeling to see how far things can be pushed and see if a serious crossover that follows the crossover philosophy in the Elsinores and Hamlets are deserved.

5. If so, maybe the crossover will be external and four wires going into the box, the same way as the Hamlets (4) and Elsinores (6) - but will cross that bridge when we get to it, as that might compromise their smallness.

In the end, we could end up with three different upgrades levels, computer upgrade, intermediate upgrade and the full monty upgrade. It all depends on how things pan out. It's already a success with my computer, so what is there to lose - and it has taken my fancy to try go down this road.

BTW, I can't say anything too much, but I am in discussion with a speaker manufacturer of some reknown and with a view to developing the first 3-Way active speaker system where all the drivers, including the bass, will use all-current drive. Some speaker makers, like SGR in Melbourne and Kii Audio too in their active speakers. they are using current drive on the midrange and maybe tweeter too. But nobody has done it on the bass because it can't be done on the bass, right? Wrong, it can be done and there is something about the Elsinores that shows it can be done, but it is only part of the story. Under a specific set of circumstances, current drive can have greater damping than voltage drive. It is done by changing current versus frequency and controlling the sum current. I have demonstrated this to a few speaker designers and they were amazed that it works that way. That now has led to the idea of developing a 3-way all active current system for the first time.

Later in the year, a working model is intended to be demonstrated at a major Hi-Fi Show in Europe - the date is up in the air, but hopefully when summer comes around in the northern hemisphere, the virus will have peaked (the number getting the virus per day will come down) and we shall all see where we have ended up then. Take care, all of you.

Cheers, Joe
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Hi Joe - I just found this thread after building some neurochrome amps over the last few months - I had planned to leave my system alone with the PSB image towers I have but this thread is rather inspiring regarding the level of performance potentially available..

My main purpose for my speakers is home theatre - which means I would need paired center and surrounds along with the elsinore towers. I see you are in the process of completing your Hamlet build plans - this seems like what would be ideal for the center speaker..

Any more info or development on the quoted post regarding the Dayton monitors? Would these make adequate surround monitors to pair with your Elsinore towers for a HT setup?

Thanks very much,
Vic
 
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Joe Rasmussen

Joe Rasmussen

Member
Joined 2003
customanalogue.com
mcphervi said:
My main purpose for my speakers is home theatre - which means I would need paired center and surrounds along with the elsinore towers. I see you are in the process of completing your Hamlet build plans - this seems like what would be ideal for the center speaker..
Vic
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Sending you an email.

Things are much better here. I am not going away during the Xmas season and probably will take a holiday in February, so until then it is going to be a working summer. Hamlets, Dayton and other work, time to get up to scratch.

You raised question re damping. Just posted about that. Hopefully others here can be helpful.

Cheers, Joe
 
mbrennwa

mbrennwa

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Joined 2005
audioroot.net
Paid Member
Joe Rasmussen said:
I wonder if anybody would offer up information and ideas and what you have used as the internal damping of the Elsinore boxes. I was sent an email about this and thought maybe we could have a discussion about.

So what have you used? That is a good starting point.
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Just search this thread for terms like "wool", "polyester", "dacron", "felt", "damping", etc. and you'll find quite a few posts.
 
Z

zman01

Member
Joined 2011
I think what mbrennwa is referring to is that this info can be found by searching through this thread... (and that can be a good starting point).

The wording nearly threw me off the first time I read the post; then reading again my understanding changed. Another example of potential misunderstandings over Internet communications. :)
 
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32y0

Member
Joined 2009
Joe Rasmussen said:
I wonder if anybody would offer up information and ideas and what you have used as the internal damping of the Elsinore boxes. I was sent an email about this and thought maybe we could have a discussion about.

So what have you used? That is a good starting point.
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Hi Joe, I used Jantzen Polyester Damping Cloth (014-0410).
http://www.jantzen-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Damping-Materials-Catalogue.pdf

Here in Australia it's available from Speakerbug (Wadding)
 
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zman01

Member
Joined 2011
scottjoplin,

I wouldn't see it that way. For a lot of us English isn't our first language, and reading forum posts on the phone don't do the ageing eyes any favors. And of course there are other factors too like mood, distractions etc. Makes it all too easy to misinterpret posts, especially if one has had prior disagreements with the poster. :)

Let us be positive and let this thread be a worthwhile resource for the (Elsinore) builders.
 
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mcphervi

Member
Joined 2017
mbrennwa said:
Just search this thread for terms like "wool", "polyester", "dacron", "felt", "damping", etc. and you'll find quite a few posts.
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Just FYI I have certainly looked through the majority of this thread - the issue is that the majority (if not all) of what was historically used by various builders is no longer available, and in other cases it seemed as though it wasn't necessarily matched to the speccs Joe had posted on his site..
 
Z

zman01

Member
Joined 2011
mcphervi,

Joe spec'ed a 60% wool and 40% poly on his website. That material is more difficult to source vs 100% polyester batting. Among options for 60:40 material, Monacor used to have a material called MDM-3 which used to fit Joe's spec, but that is no longer available (to my knowledge).

If I understand correctly, folks have also built the speakers using with 100% Dacron batting?

Which country are you located in?
 
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32y0

Member
Joined 2009
zman01 said:
mcphervi,

Joe spec'ed a 60% wool and 40% poly on his website. That material is more difficult to source vs 100% polyester batting. Among options for 60:40 material, Monacor used to have a material called MDM-3 which used to fit Joe's spec, but that is no longer available (to my knowledge).

If I understand correctly, folks have also built the speakers using with 100% Dacron batting?

Which country are you located in?
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Actually, Joe has been using that too. If you go to the Internal Wiring & Box Damping page, almost at the bottom it says:

More recently being using this:

PolyMax Thermal & Acoustic Batts R.30
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Which is 100% polyester.
 
R

Ripster

Member
Joined 2018
I used polyester damping cloth from jantzen, but with this polyester stuff I always find it funny, how the thickness is like 30mm decompressed but I am never able to decompress it to reference thickness ... I just fluf it by hand as much as possible and use 2 layers (app. 60mm) I tried to add more but it was defenetly too much. And 1 flufed up layer for front.
 
mbrennwa

mbrennwa

Member
Joined 2005
audioroot.net
Paid Member
mcphervi said:
Just FYI I have certainly looked through the majority of this thread - the issue is that the majority (if not all) of what was historically used by various builders is no longer available...
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I am not sure I get this... wool, felt, polyester has been around for ages, still is, and will be for a long time. What do you mean by "is no longer available"?
 
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