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Old 19th March 2008, 01:18 PM   #151
Peter N is offline Peter N  Italy
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hello,

This is the layout of the crossover
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/1393/im000072vl6.jpg
they are placed on 20cmx9,5cm mdf25mm

are the coils placed good to avoid magnetic interaction?






Quote:
As a former contortionist, go for it
You've been a contortionist? woman must love you at bed
Anyway one of the side panel and the main brace isn't glued so it's not that difficult...
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Old 19th March 2008, 01:43 PM   #152
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OK, here I go climbing my soap box again...

While there are elements of 'constrained layer' in the materials you guys are talking about, I do think that the most basic way at looking at damping and bracing enclosures, the target is to get the resonances as high as possible and then use mass. The higher we can force the resonances the smaller the amplitude and mass becomes more effective. The problem is that the Elsinores are a relative large speaker and the box I heard using HD3 were much smaller using the 5 1/4" Nomex and Peerless HDS. Small equals stiffness. There was a sense of very low noise floor and very good focus. Keep in mind the whole carcass was HD3.

In the Elsinores, I think it makes sense to concentrate on the Front Panel rather than the whole carcass. The Front Panel will always be the weakest panel - putting holes to mount drivers cannot help one bit. I see that Dynaudio makes the Front Panel very small even if box is large. I can see where they are coming from. Pretty sure this is HD3. The weakest part of the box also needs to be the strongest. The Front Panel needs our greatest focus and the rest of the box, don't ignore completely, use good strong construction and sound bracing techniques (I use longitudinal and asymmetric bracing techniques as much as possible).

Constrained layer or similar techniques work better with straight out panels. But the Front Panel is really not a panel in the full sense of the word. Sides, backs etc, yes. I think we need to think as the Front Panel as something that needs to be 'sculptured' for maximum strength, air flow behind the drivers. We know that 'shaping' an object changes its resonant modes. Take a cube of wood, even if not the tougest or highest density, and try make it 'vibrate.' Now slice the would into thinner sections and voila, it becomes much easier to excite.

For this reason I think that HD3 for the Front Panel, that can be CNC'd to good effect, would also be cost effective. The square driver cut-out (designed to be simple to do DIY wise) of the 25mm Sub Front Panel, the air flow and strength can both be improved by 'shaping'. I would also make both 18mm Front Panel (in two parts) as well as 25mm Sub Front Panel (1 piece) and the Tweeter Panel (1 piece). I would not be inclined to mix HD3 and something else.

I think this would make a very strong Front Panel - much improved. I would leave the rest of the box as is. But the rest of the box we could use Triboard or other some-such to could effect.

Think of photography: We know that even small amounts of camera shake can produce a blurry picture. Effectively it looks like lack of focus. It is not the scene that is moving but the camera. Now reverse that principle: When listening to a loudspeaker, it is not the listener that is moving. We are stationary. Unless the drivers in the box are also held stationary, the sonic images becomes blurry. Classic law of relativity. It is the noise generated by the Front Panel that causes this, not just vibrational modes of the box as a whole.

We need to keep those drivers locked in space. Like a vice!

Joe R.
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Old 19th March 2008, 01:54 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally posted by Peter N


You've been a contortionist?

If you saw my silhouette, the joke would be even more obvious!

In the members profile it asks for "Occupation", so I put Contortionist and nobody so far has noticed.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/membe...fo&userid=4828

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Old 19th March 2008, 01:57 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally posted by mantraxl

In response to Joes question, yes, I definitely plan to build a set of Elsinores, though I am also working on a design of my own (well sort of my own) based on my understanding of the principles and methods laid out by Joe. I am trying to put my grasp of the ideas to the test and I suppose that we shall see how that works out. Regardless, I wouldn't think of missing out on joining the club of Elsinore builders and hearing the much-lauded results
For the latter - go for it. I don't think you will be disappointed.

Re the former. Keep us informed.

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Old 19th March 2008, 02:28 PM   #155
Peter N is offline Peter N  Italy
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Quote:
If you saw my silhouette, the joke would be even more obvious!
Yes I saw that pic under you name, but I thought could be anybody until you told me.... but anyway you could always say you're a former conrtionist, my neighbour was a pro skier(also raced in national team), now you would not say it was.
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Old 13th April 2008, 10:10 PM   #156
Peter N is offline Peter N  Italy
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Finally I finished the elsinores! For my first laudspeaker it wasn't easy at some point, especially cuts and crossover.

Great dynimic and it's well under control.
Great soundstage, it's really good.
It has really a good sensivity, I'm using little power.

The only thing sometime I don't like are the highs, for me sometime are too laud. On some cd the voices sound a little harsh.

Maybe I did something wrong in the crossover?
The first time I had connected 3 one ohm resistor in parallel then I heard something wasn't right and I connected them in series. maybe I burned a resistor?

A mistake I did is on tweeters. They're not aligned from the center by 2-3mm.

I have not yet honed the edges, I don't understood if I have to do it.
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Old 13th April 2008, 10:47 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally posted by Peter N

Finally I finished the elsinores! ...

Maybe I did something wrong in the crossover?

Good on you!

Check the crossover and wiring over and over again. This is where mistakes are most likely. This includes getting the right phase. Keep checking until you are absolutely sure.

Just ask Rob, he has a similar problem and it turned out that his tweeter's phase wasn't right. It is VERY easy to make a mistake, so don't feel a fool if you find something. Happens to the best of us.


Quote:
Originally posted by Peter N

A mistake I did is on tweeters. They're not aligned from the center by 2-3mm.

Not sure what you mean by that.

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Old 14th April 2008, 02:57 AM   #158
rob323 is offline rob323  Australia
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The symptoms I had were a treble that was very shouty and fatiging, an image that would wander as the frequency increased, and all imaging just about totally disappeared unless you sat dead central in the sweet spot.

The cure for all the above was to reverse the phase to both tweeters.

Edit - Oh, and don't listen to them without the felt around the tweeter, it makes a huge difference.
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Old 14th April 2008, 01:27 PM   #159
Peter N is offline Peter N  Italy
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on the tweeter's blinding post there is a white mark, is the positive pole?
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Old 14th April 2008, 02:58 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally posted by Peter N
on the tweeter's blinding post there is a white mark, is the positive pole?
Correct. To be absolutely sure, connect a 1.5V battery across the tweeter's terminal. The phase is correct when the tweeter's dome moves slightly forward and the plus terminal of the battery indicates that it is connected to the plus terminal of the tweeter.

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