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Old 18th June 2013, 04:40 AM   #1571
BL4S7ER is offline BL4S7ER  Australia
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X-over upgrade imminent! I've just received the first of 2 packages of components for the MK5 crossover. 2nd package should arrive this week

I built the mk3 elsinores (and hamlet) a few years ago now. Im really looking forward to seeing what difference the updated crossover introduces (and yep i have the waveguides).

Will report with impressions once I have had a proper listen.

If anyone is interested in purchasing any of the old mk3 components just pm. I reside in Australia and am happy for them to go cheap to a good home. All components sourced are high end and cost me a small fortune. As an added bonus I can guarantee all components have been burned in

Cheers, Andrew
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Old 18th June 2013, 09:21 AM   #1572
Boris40 is offline Boris40  Sweden
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Our living room is small. Marginally bigger than my brother-in-law's bathroom/walk-in closet. How can I guesstimate the impact on Elsinor's performance?

I have sofar used AR1 speakers 15 woofers (with 500W Sunfire amps built in) with decent result. Mind you that is my judging I am not sure how accurate that is...
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Old 18th June 2013, 06:41 PM   #1573
Boris40 is offline Boris40  Sweden
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Quote from Joe Rasmussen:
This speaker is very VERY sensitive to speaker location within the room.

Get them well away from the rear wall as you can. Calculate the length of the room (the direction the speaker is firing), multiply by 3 and then divide by 10.

If that is 5 Metres, then the front of the Waveguide should be 1.5M, for 4M then 1.2M and 6M then 1.8M and so on.



Wow, that means the loudspeakers have to be placed approx 1/3 of the room's length into the room...which will significantly affect how you can furniture the room (for those of us without a special listening room).

What happens if you can only have the speakers 1/15 to 1/20 (of roomlength) from the wall?
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Old 18th June 2013, 11:41 PM   #1574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boris40 View Post
Quote from Joe Rasmussen:
[COLOR="Cyan"][COLOR="SandyBrown"]This speaker is very VERY sensitive to speaker location within the room.
I think I must point out that this was a relative point, in-so-far it does in fact apply to ALL speakers.

Most speakers in most rooms I have ever walked into, have been in less than ideal locations within the room. It is just one of those things.

So to get the "best" out of the Elsinores, yes, they ARE sensitive to location.

So I am simply saying, as far as is possible, do try ALL the available options you might have, in your particular circumstances.

It should not disqualify you from building the Elsinores.

Frightfully busy, can't make any comments here and via email till next week. But thought I should just quickly point out the above.

Cheers, Joe
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Old 22nd June 2013, 04:17 PM   #1575
BL4S7ER is offline BL4S7ER  Australia
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Well.. i am surprised.

Completed the mk5 crossover (Joe R. take on Bolserst's mod) and connected to one speaker while leaving the mk3 crossover on the other. Firstly the mk5 appears to be less efficient, roughly 2dB. Once compensated for I played source material through each speaker while changing my positioning to roughly 2 mtrs away just off axis from each speaker in turn.

The most obvious difference was with high frequency's/vocals. While the mk3 was excessively energetic and bright the mk5 sounded muffled and less dynamic. Mid and low frequency's however were vastly improved.

But i was constantly aware that something seemed to be missing when comparing. I have to note that the high frequency's did sound far more controlled while the Mk3's could on occasions sound harsh to the point were it almost felt distorted.

Having listened to them all day I almost wish I could take a bit of both. The mk5 is not what i expected, however it does appear more refined.

Based on this i have a number of options available but not sure which might the best to get the characteristics I would like - ei not so flat - a little more bright, and increase efficiency.

- remove the 33R resistors in parallel with the drivers.
- remove the conjugate filter from the low pass filter.
- convert to the original Mk5 design (unmodified)

If anyone is able to provide advice as to the best options above to start with it would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers, Andrew
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Old 22nd June 2013, 04:48 PM   #1576
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Hi Andrew,

I have the Mk5 original crossover and the high frequency/vocals are not muffled at all. I would start with the original filter then, if needed, add gradually parts of Bolsert's mod the order Joe told us in a previous post. The "Elsinore Project" Thread

Last edited by petefrontiers; 22nd June 2013 at 04:55 PM.
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Old 22nd June 2013, 10:55 PM   #1577
jdkJake is offline jdkJake  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BL4S7ER View Post
Well.. i am surprised.

Completed the mk5 crossover (Joe R. take on Bolserst's mod) and connected to one speaker while leaving the mk3 crossover on the other. Firstly the mk5 appears to be less efficient, roughly 2dB. Once compensated for I played source material through each speaker while changing my positioning to roughly 2 mtrs away just off axis from each speaker in turn.

The most obvious difference was with high frequency's/vocals. While the mk3 was excessively energetic and bright the mk5 sounded muffled and less dynamic. Mid and low frequency's however were vastly improved.

But i was constantly aware that something seemed to be missing when comparing. I have to note that the high frequency's did sound far more controlled while the Mk3's could on occasions sound harsh to the point were it almost felt distorted.

Having listened to them all day I almost wish I could take a bit of both. The mk5 is not what i expected, however it does appear more refined.

Based on this i have a number of options available but not sure which might the best to get the characteristics I would like - ei not so flat - a little more bright, and increase efficiency.

- remove the 33R resistors in parallel with the drivers.
- remove the conjugate filter from the low pass filter.
- convert to the original Mk5 design (unmodified)

If anyone is able to provide advice as to the best options above to start with it would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers, Andrew
What size cap are you running on the tweeters? 1.8uf? Or some other value?
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Old 23rd June 2013, 02:50 AM   #1578
BL4S7ER is offline BL4S7ER  Australia
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After experimenting with removing the conjugate filter, and also removing Bolserst's mod it still wasn't performing to my taste.

I didnt try removing the 33R parallel resistors though. Joe stated below;

Quote:
Stage 1:

Fit the 33R resistors, you will need eight in all.

That might be all you need to try. The tonal balance will be more gently downward and hence less bright. But since excess energy is what led us in this direction, maybe the less averaged out energy above 1Khz will go some way to assist. No more required.
If I read that correctly would having these resistors in place be affecting the tonal output for the high end? By removing them would I gain 'brightness'.

@jdkJake - I am using 2uf. The Mk3 used 4.7uf. Thanks for mentioning this though as it got me thinking.

I have now increased the series cap to 3uf and this has made a big difference. The sound is far more similar to the mk3 but still retains the low end characteristics that the Mk5 introduces.

Cheers, Andrew
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Old 23rd June 2013, 07:30 AM   #1579
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Originally Posted by BL4S7ER View Post
I have now increased the series cap to 3uf and this has made a big difference. The sound is far more similar to the mk3 but still retains the low end characteristics that the Mk5 introduces.

Cheers, Andrew
This sounds interesting as I am an old Magnaplanar & Quad fan. Have You been experimenting anything more & is the change of the series cap from 2 to 3 uF the only change now from the Mk5 design?

Cheers //H
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Old 23rd June 2013, 08:07 AM   #1580
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What about parallell caps just for testing, the 2,0uF in parallell with lets say 0,82 and/or 0,56uF. Does the parallell position affect the sound seriously?
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