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Old 10th January 2013, 02:27 AM   #1421
jdkJake is offline jdkJake  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esl-fan View Post
is there any online store where I can get the parts needed for Elsinore? woofers and tweets and waveguide? XOver?
As Joel stated above, see him for the waveguides. As for the rest, where are you located? In the States, I used the following:

Parts Express: the #1 source for audio, video & speaker building components
Madisound Speaker Components: distributor of loudspeaker drivers and parts for speaker builders.
Premium grade audio components including crossover inductors, audio capacitors, electronic assemblies | ERSE Audio
Sonic Craft High-End DIY Audio Parts

And for the damping material...

MCM Electronics: Home and Pro Audio/Video, Security and Test Equipment

Hope this helps....
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Old 10th January 2013, 05:59 PM   #1422
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Originally Posted by Francois G View Post
...I'm asking to do it the right way rather than the easy way.

Francois.
Sorry, Joe, I take that back - stand corrected by JdkJake.
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Old 16th January 2013, 07:41 AM   #1423
sibbeli is offline sibbeli  Sweden
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Hi!

I am seroiusly thinking about building me a pair of these wonderful speakers, but i have some questions i need to get answered first.

As i live in sweden it isnt especially economic for me to buy Joels waveguides as they probalby would end up around $300 at my door.

So, i was thinking of building me a pair of Elsies from some older Mk that doesnīt use the Joel waveguide at first and then later upgrade.

1. Is the Mk 4 version using the Joel Wg?

2. Where do i find complete info about the last Mark that doesnīt use Joel Wg?



3. And, If i Build the latest Mk without Wg, is it easy to upgrade to Mk 5 later on?


As I donīt know about the Mk 4 version my thinking was to build the Mark 3 version with the felt around the tweeter and the mark 3 crossover as that info is somewhat easy to find, and later on as i said upgrade when i have the ability to cnc my own waveguide.

4. Can somebody please point me to the info needed to build a Elsie "felt version"?

5. The felt, can I use that kind of felt that is used as cloth on subwoofers in cars? You know that black cloth on the boxes.

6. If thatīt not the best idea, how should the felt be? 2mm? 5mm? thick? See trough?

7. Should the felt be in two layers or should i put on more and more layers gradually so it looks somewhat like stairs instead of just 2-3 layers?


Many questions.. If you know the answer to just one of them, please write it

As it is know, it is a lot of info to look trough and it is hard to know which of it apllies to the "felt version"

Best regards, Mathias.

I have never felt so strong about a spreker project before as i do about the Elsies. So so much info, so much thought into it that it is amazing.
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Old 16th January 2013, 11:57 AM   #1424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sibbeli View Post

1. Is the Mk 4 version using the Joel Wg?

2. Where do i find complete info about the last Mark that doesnīt use Joel Wg?

3. And, If i Build the latest Mk without Wg, is it easy to upgrade to Mk 5 later on?
I will answer a couple of them quickly as they are the important ones.

I have no doubt that Troel's Waveguide is excellent, but it is not compatible for a variety of reasons, as even he would tell you. Joel's Waveguide dimensions are part of a complex computer modelling, even as Troel's designs are as well (the modelling is done when the measurements are taken when the drivers are in the box with that Waveguide fitted right there and then). Also the "offset" is very different, and that will affect where the impulses of the driver's end up. By offset, I mean they don't put back the tweeter by the same amount, Troel's looks way too deep.

Do not make Mk4 with the intention of upgrading to Mk 5 later, it would mean wasting a LOT of money.

The problem: The Crossovers are TOTALLY different !!!

The cost of the Crossovers are DOUBLED!

Also the performance difference between Mk4 and Mk5 is HUGE !!!

If cost is a problem, and we all have to live within our means, then I would be patient and wait until I could do it properly and that means aim for Mk5. You won't regret it.

While waiting, you could still start by building the boxes and get the rest as you go along. Just an idea.

Cheers, Joe R.
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Old 17th January 2013, 08:00 AM   #1425
irext is offline irext  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sibbeli View Post
Hi!

I am seroiusly thinking about building me a pair of these wonderful speakers, but i have some questions i need to get answered first.

As i live in sweden it isnt especially economic for me to buy Joels waveguides as they probalby would end up around $300 at my door.

So, i was thinking of building me a pair of Elsies from some older Mk that doesnīt use the Joel waveguide at first and then later upgrade.

1. Is the Mk 4 version using the Joel Wg?

2. Where do i find complete info about the last Mark that doesnīt use Joel Wg?



3. And, If i Build the latest Mk without Wg, is it easy to upgrade to Mk 5 later on?


As I donīt know about the Mk 4 version my thinking was to build the Mark 3 version with the felt around the tweeter and the mark 3 crossover as that info is somewhat easy to find, and later on as i said upgrade when i have the ability to cnc my own waveguide.

4. Can somebody please point me to the info needed to build a Elsie "felt version"?

5. The felt, can I use that kind of felt that is used as cloth on subwoofers in cars? You know that black cloth on the boxes.

6. If thatīt not the best idea, how should the felt be? 2mm? 5mm? thick? See trough?

7. Should the felt be in two layers or should i put on more and more layers gradually so it looks somewhat like stairs instead of just 2-3 layers?


Many questions.. If you know the answer to just one of them, please write it

As it is know, it is a lot of info to look trough and it is hard to know which of it apllies to the "felt version"

Best regards, Mathias.

I have never felt so strong about a spreker project before as i do about the Elsies. So so much info, so much thought into it that it is amazing.
Maybe Joe has some of the MDF waveguides left which should weigh considerably less than than the alloy ones and reduce the freight cost?? Just a thought.
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Old 17th January 2013, 08:27 AM   #1426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irext View Post
Maybe Joe has some of the MDF waveguides left which should weigh considerably less than than the alloy ones and reduce the freight cost?? Just a thought.
Alas no. The final pair I have here is promised to somebody else.

The difference between Mk3 and Mk4 were minimal. The difference between Mk4 and Mk5 were rather substantial, and so was the improvement.

Cheers, Joe R.
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Old 17th January 2013, 10:55 AM   #1427
sibbeli is offline sibbeli  Sweden
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Hi again!

Troelīs Wg?

I meant Joels, i might have spelled wrong, many different names..

I do know that a waveguid is only suited to use in a situation that has ben modelled for that particular waveguide. I have no intention in using any other waveguide than that modeled for this speaker.

Okey, i will try to refrase.

As i have a somewhat limited budget right now, i was thinking of building a "felt" version of the elsies to begin with.

I have searched and read some more and i see that that the Mk 3 version uses felt around the tweeter. I can also find info regarding the xo for that verison too.

So, is it possible for me to build the Mk 3 version, with felt to start with?

I have no problem in building a new crossover or even a new box later on, that is no problem. For that i can save some months or whatever.

So, my thought is to build a felt version now. Then, later on upgrade to a expensive Mk 5 with a real good crossover and such.

This verion would be somewhat of a budget version, felt, cheaper xo parts, etc etc.

So, the question is, the info around the lates "felt" version, which is it? Mk3 i guess?



There is no need to worry if it isnīt possible to upgrade to Mk 5 in the same box or that it uses a new crossover. My plan has almost the whole time been to build a cheaper box, with a little bit chaper xo parts as a beginning, and then later on build a REAL fine version when the funds allow it. With no cheapish parts, no budget thinking what so ever.

This is possible, right?
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Old 17th January 2013, 01:05 PM   #1428
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Joel's waveguides are very nice (have a pair), but given customs and duties it sounds like it would be quite expensive for you to import. However, with the dimensions (buried somewhere in this forum) you could make a pair yourself if you have the necessary skills and equipment. Failing that, perhaps someone is available who could make a pair for you?
While Joel's are aluminum, there are other materials such as wood that can be turned, or alternatively check out Rod Elliott's page on making waveguides at Practical DIY Waveguides - Part 1. The dimensions are not suitable, but you might find the method works well enough to allow making a Mk V and replace the waveguides with different ones at a later date.
Just a thought ....
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Old 17th January 2013, 11:55 PM   #1429
sibbeli is offline sibbeli  Sweden
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Well, i think i will have a go at crating a waveguide.

When they were done in mdf, how did you do it then? CNC?

I have access to a drill lathe, and i have access to different plastics.

I have access to a full carpenter shop without a horisontal lathe. Donīt know that word but that machine you use to carve out legs to chairs and such. That machine, no access.

I can do a model in clay and then make a mold out of it and then do it in glass/carbon fibre. That does seem like a lot of work thou.

Feels like i am missing some obvius way to make it..
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Old 19th January 2013, 06:10 AM   #1430
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With some research I would have a go at machining up a pair on the lathe in maybe a hardwood, but be prepared to spend many hours getting it right.
In hindsight the $300 option may not look so bad. Just depends how handy you are on the lathe.
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